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EmoTracker
Support / autotracker-support
Autotracker requires an active internet connection. Make sure you have installed the required manual update referred to in #announcements! All autotracker related support discussion (questions, help requests, etc.) should go here. Useful information is in the pinned messages. When reporting issues, make sure to be specific about what emulator/console/etc. is being used, as well as the details of what you saw, as specifically as possible. For emulator players, any Lua script errors you see in your emulator are very useful information.
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Espeon 2019-02-24 22:54
Guide to Autotracker Setup (Bizhawk) Bizhawk Prereqs (You need this before you install Bizhawk proper): https://github.com/TASVideos/BizHawk-Prereqs/releases Bizhawk: https://github.com/TASVideos/BizHawk/releases Note: You specifically need a version of Bizhawk that supports Crowd Control. The currently supported versions of Bizhawk can be found at https://crowdcontrol.live/setup#support. After downloading the emulator: - Open Bizhawk and go to Config > Cores > SNES > BSNES. The autotracker only works with BSNES core. - Go to Config > Customize. In the Advanced tab, set the Lua core to "Lua+Lua Interface." - Restart Bizhawk. This is very important as it reloads the Lua core correctly. - Open Emotracker with a package that supports autotracking. Right click on the robot in the bottom right corner and set it to "Lua," then start the autotracking. (it'll come up yellow, that's ok) - In Bizhawk, go to Tools > Lua Console. Open the script in the Emotracker install directory (probably something like C:\Program Files (x86)\EmoTracker\Connectors\bizhawk\connector.lua) - Run the script. If everything is working correctly, the console will output that the connection was established, and the robot will change to cyan. Leave the Lua console open in the background. - Then it should work. Hopefully. (edited)
❤ 3
pidgeTy 2
💯 2
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 22:55
Pinned a message.
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DillonIsMyName 2019-02-24 22:55
So small issue I noticed when I gave it a try earlier. Once I did Lumberjack, a few things, such as one of the 'locations' in Lost woods, unchecked themselves as 'done'
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 22:55
Had you manually cleared them?
22:55
Or did the autotracker clear them?
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DillonIsMyName 2019-02-24 22:56
Autotracker cleared the lost woods one
22:56
if it helps I'll replay the seed to see if it re-occurs and give an exact answer on what happened and what it effects?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 22:57
Also, just so I know... Emulator or SD2SNES?
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DillonIsMyName 2019-02-24 22:57
BSnes through bizhawk
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 22:57
👍
22:57
Thanks for the report. There have been a few related reports, all on emulator. I will be looking into it over the next couple of days.
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DillonIsMyName 2019-02-24 22:58
no problem at all, I just wanted to make you aware. Thank you for the work you put in on top of all the other stuff within your life that takes time 👍
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The_Black_Sheep 2019-02-24 23:02
is there anything i would need to change on the streaming PC to get it to talk to BizHawk?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 23:03
Whichever PC is running Bizhawk, that will need to have the edited connector.lua loaded
23:03
The streaming PC, with the tracker, should require no changes
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The_Black_Sheep 2019-02-24 23:04
its still saying failed to open socket ;/
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 23:04
Make sure you've followed all the directions in the pinned message
23:05
Have you verified that it works with an unmodified connector.lua script on a single PC?
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The_Black_Sheep 2019-02-24 23:05
yes
23:05
i did that first and foremost
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 23:05
K. You may want to try making sure that there are no firewall restrictions affecting either app on both PCs. The port in question is 43884.
23:06
Beyond that, unfortunately I haven't run this config myself, so I can't provide much help beyond that.
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The_Black_Sheep 2019-02-24 23:06
opened an incoming rule on the streaming pc and an outgoing rule on the gaming pc
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 23:07
If all else fails, and you'd like to run both apps on your gaming PC, then I recommend using NDI to capture the broadcast layout. That will allow the tracker to stream its video (at relatively low cpu usage) to your streaming PC with OBS/Xsplit, etc. As a bonus, you get full transparent capture, with no need for color keying. Details on NDI can be found here: https://emotracker.net/blog/2018/09/13/emotracker_2_1_release_notes/ (edited)
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 01:51
The connection was established. Unable to find domain: System Bus, falling back to current Warning: Attempted read 8257696 outside memory domain size of 131072 in readbyterange() NLua.Exceptions.LuaScriptException: [string "main"]:47: bad argument #1 to 'char' (number expected, got nil) this is the message i get when connecting
01:53
and its not tracking
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 01:57
Follow all the directions in the pinned message here
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 01:57
i did
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 01:57
You have missed some steps
01:58
That tells me you are using the wrong core, and I believe the wrong Lua interpreter as well
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 01:58
the robot icon is cyan
01:58
and im using bsnes
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 01:58
The robot connected, but is failing to receive responses
01:58
Because of that exception
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 01:59
do i have to change the core every time i launch bizhawk?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 02:01
You shouldn’t, so long as your settings are getting saved. (edited)
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 02:01
ok well you were right it was using snes9x or whatever its called
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 02:04
👌
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 02:05
thank you
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 05:20
@EmoSaru fyi, my "manual" bug last night was specifically related to right clicking Zora Ledge
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Spleebie 2019-02-25 07:26
Minor issue, I was playing a standard seed last night and auto-tracker didn't clear the Uncle location when he gave me the hammer. Only other issues I had were due to my user overrides and I got those figured out. Excellent work on this!
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Doctor Claw 2019-02-25 08:11
I have never worked with lua before I did some quick reading but I am trying to make it work from my gaming pc and connecting it to my stream pc. As of now I know my two computers are mapped and talking correct I am looking into an issue where i am getting a failed to open socket. This happens once I change from localhost to ip or computer name on the network. (edited)
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foreverpsycotic 2019-02-25 08:27
Any chance of everdrive support?
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Espeon 2019-02-25 09:47
@Spleebie uncle might be being counted as part of hyrule castle dungeon
09:48
that's the only explanation I can think for it not behaving
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Spleebie 2019-02-25 09:51
It was just weird because it cleared the chest near uncle but not uncle himself. First seed I tried with the auto-tracking though, so I'm not sure if it was just a fluke.
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Doctor Claw 2019-02-25 10:12
I feel like I am being a dummy here but how do I activate NDI?
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Espeon 2019-02-25 10:14
hum that's odd. well it may just be a fluke, or could be a real bug
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Doctor Claw 2019-02-25 10:16
I have emotracker active and the broadcast view up then the game running as well.
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Espeon 2019-02-25 10:18
"failed to.open socket" means the script can't find emotracker. if you're changing the IP of the other computer, it makes sense
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Doctor Claw 2019-02-25 10:18
yeah I gave up on that one
10:18
So now I am trying the NDI way
10:19
It's all connected localhost now
10:19
I will go back and test trying to get it working through 2 computers but for now I just wanted to see if I can get the tracker to the stream pc through NDI instead
10:21
As far as the tracker goes it's working then. I have everything in OBS working as far as NDI but I cannot select a source name but I believe that is because Emotracker is not broadcasting in NDI as I don't have the Icon.
10:21
So now trying to figure out how to get the NDI icon on the bottom right of the tracker
10:24
10:24
This is basically the setup and from what I read I though this would automatically start broadcasting in NDI?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 10:44
The NDI icon will only show up when you have the source visible in an NDI enabled app, on either preview or live feeds. Have you setup an NDI source in eg OBS and selected EmoTracker there?
10:45
NDI support should go in the general support forum though.
10:46
I will he looking into missed location events. Please note whether you are using sd2snes, Bizhawk, or snes9x-rr in any reports
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Blackjac 2019-02-25 10:46
This is wierd. I downloaded BizHawk and updated the EmoTracker to 2.3.0.6 I see the Cyan Robot head, but it's not updating the tracker. I got a sword and the Gloves and it's not updating it.
10:46
I followed all steps listed above (including keeping the LUA console open)
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 10:47
One user was having issues and mysteriously found that uninstalling and reinstalling EmoTracker helped. I still have no clue why that would happen, but you may want to try if.
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Blackjac 2019-02-25 10:47
hmm ok
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 10:48
Also make sure that you don’t see any errors in the Lua window in bizhawk.
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Blackjac 2019-02-25 10:52
in the Lua Console it says 1 script (0 active, 0 paused). in the Output section it says "The connection was established"
10:53
It works!
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 10:53
👍
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Blackjac 2019-02-25 10:54
sakuDab
10:57
I did uninstall EmuTracker and reinstall it.
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Doctor Claw 2019-02-25 10:57
OK sorry emu for the wrong place
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Darkwolf 2019-02-25 11:59
Auto tracker is removed ???
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:00
for alttp specificaly
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DigitalD 2019-02-25 12:00
Is there a list of which emulators work with autotracker? Or is it just bizhawk?
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Darkwolf 2019-02-25 12:00
😦 why it s removed now ! one day after adding it
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Mihalo 2019-02-25 12:03
aw. It was nice for my casual runs, tried it out earlier.
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Darkwolf 2019-02-25 12:04
Me too ! It s so cool for casual !
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:04
lots of backlash. nasty things were said and much noise was made about it
12:04
accessibility concerns
12:04
etc.
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qwertymodo 2019-02-25 12:04
Aww... bummer. Sorry to see all the hate getting thrown around @EmoSaru 😦 Danged if you do, hecked if you don't...
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Zembar 2019-02-25 12:05
Hopefully this is to be continued at a later date, I thought it was really nice
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:06
Just want to say I appreciate the interest and support from people here. Most people involved are ill-informed, a few people can (pardon me) fuck right off.
👍 8
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Marcnificent 2019-02-25 12:06
its awesome [period]
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Darkwolf 2019-02-25 12:06
............ :'
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 12:07
I was actually looking forward to using this
12:07
Like what's the big deal
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Darkwolf 2019-02-25 12:07
Why I dont have made a save for the earlier version with auto tracking !!! 😢
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Nyobari 2019-02-25 12:07
It was very cool seeing it in action, looking forward to the scaled back version when it happens.
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キノ 2019-02-25 12:07
People don't seem to understand the way that the autotracking works or something
12:08
You point it at a specific set of memory with a specific range of data access
12:08
So it tells you a limited amount of info
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Mihalo 2019-02-25 12:08
Yeah, I came and asked a few questions yesterday, as we in oot rando would definitely have accessibility concerns too (but that's mostly because we have a lot playing on wii vc) But the way people seem to have went about it, is very undeserved for all the work you put in
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qwertymodo 2019-02-25 12:08
Long run, if it does come back, I do think it should only work on non-race roms. Yes, it's trivial to bypass, but it's also trivial to use another open-source autotracker and bypass it that way too. Cheaters gonna cheat. It's not like you're reverse engineering the item data encryption or anything.
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キノ 2019-02-25 12:08
Who cheats in a rando anyway
12:08
Like, wtf
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Mihalo 2019-02-25 12:09
well you'd be surprised. we had to ban someone from the ongoing ootr tourney for streamsniping very recently
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Darkwolf 2019-02-25 12:09
and .... people who have save the earlier version can continue to cheat ? OMFG !
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greg 2019-02-25 12:09
i think auto tracking should be the least of someone worried about cheating's concerns
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 12:09
There was someone cheating the other day in an ootr racr
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qwertymodo 2019-02-25 12:09
the community is at that point of critical mass where you get those kinds of idiots showing up
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キノ 2019-02-25 12:09
But how does emotracker do anything towards helping cheating in any situation lol
12:09
It is more restricted than a generic memory scanner
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Mihalo 2019-02-25 12:10
if you really want to, you can read the SRAM anyway
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キノ 2019-02-25 12:10
And peeps can just dump the memory and pan through themselves if they really want during a race and cheat that way
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:10
The only reason I did things the way that I did was that, so long as it was allowed in races, I could reasonably assert that people using MY app to do it weren't doing anything inappropriate.
12:10
It will tell you guys something
12:10
There is a 1-bit difference between race roms and non-race roms, outside of tournaments
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qwertymodo 2019-02-25 12:11
there's the 1 bit flag, and also the header title is different (unless they stopped doing that)
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Ekin0x 2019-02-25 12:11
I mean, if some people don't want to use it cause they are scared of whatever, then DON'T USE IT and let other people have nice things. am I right on that ?
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Darkwolf 2019-02-25 12:11
but people who have saved the earlier version can continue to use it no ? OMFG !
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:11
No.
12:11
You can't.
12:11
I'm not going into more details than that.
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 12:11
So autotracking will never be a thing for attlp
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Ekin0x 2019-02-25 12:12
Is it still on the plate for OoT or completely off the map for everything ?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:12
My point, qwerty, is that all of those checks take about 0.001s to defeat with a script
12:12
Not that that's even necessary
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:12
mmm yeah you could just mod the connector script anyway i guess
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:12
Because the only apps that would check those things are ones that actually try to protect things, like mine.
12:12
FYI, there's no other app like mine.
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fylion 2019-02-25 12:13
The evil bit is a fictional IPv4 packet header field proposed in RFC 3514, a humorous April Fools' Day RFC from 2003 authored by Steve Bellovin. The RFC recommended that the last remaining unused bit, the "Reserved Bit," in the IPv4 packet header be used to indicate whether a...
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Ekin0x 2019-02-25 12:13
Your app is fucking great @EmoSaru , people don't deserve you or your work ❤
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 12:13
I love the emotracker
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codemann8 2019-02-25 12:13
It was a happy time, and then it was a sad time
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qwertymodo 2019-02-25 12:14
right, my point was that it's not about trying to beat the people that want to cheat, that's a Sisyphean endeavor
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Mihalo 2019-02-25 12:14
I think there would definitely be a few people up for talks of support for OoTR with this, although I'll admit that we've had similar accessibility concerns (mostly because we know that people will complain if not all recommended platforms are supported)
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qwertymodo 2019-02-25 12:15
but just to say "this isn't allowed" and if people do circumvent it, you deal with that through the existing means of dealing with cheaters
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 12:15
How would you even cheat with it tho?
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DigitalD 2019-02-25 12:15
I got an error trying to load a lua script, is there something else I need to install for bizhawk?
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codemann8 2019-02-25 12:15
Starting with permanent bans
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 12:15
Not our fault you don't want to use the supported platform
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:16
@Mihalo Just as a reminder, every community has a say in what memory they allow access to, so we can absolutely come up with a set of ranges that are minimally permissive for whatever you want to support. I'm also optimistic about cross-platform support in the future for some of the underlying tech, although that's not entirely on me, and it's not an immediate term thing (edited)
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キノ 2019-02-25 12:16
@Ekin0x my understanding is that it will only be disabled for alttpr
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:17
^
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キノ 2019-02-25 12:17
it currently works still in my pack (edited)
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qwertymodo 2019-02-25 12:17
apparently .NET Core 3.0 is adding WPF support, I wouldn't be surprised if the OSS community didn't start working on cross-platform support soon
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:17
Yes, I'm definitely watching that closely qwerty
12:17
There are other options I'm considering as well
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elias5891 2019-02-25 12:17
I'm not much of a racer, mainly enjoying playing casually, so it was nice to play around with shortly. Thank you for the time and effort you put into it, and sorry that the effort was not well loved/appreciated. ❤
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codemann8 2019-02-25 12:18
This is just as equally frustrating that in 2019 we have to have a human umpire evaluate strikes and balls
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 12:18
It's just a bummer that the idea was shot down so quickly
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qwertymodo 2019-02-25 12:18
Windows 10 team aside, I've been pretty happy with the direction Microsoft has been heading as of late
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:18
It was well loved and appreciated by many.
12:18
Which I appreciate. (edited)
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Syrelash 2019-02-25 12:19
@EmoSaru As someone that still incorrectly tracks things this feature actually had me doing a seed earlier. It's a shame that the community couldn't figure out how to embrace change.
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Spleebie 2019-02-25 12:19
I loved it, glad I got to play one seed at least. Sorry to see this happen. 😞
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 12:19
I barely got it working the idea of it is amazing
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Mihalo 2019-02-25 12:19
That would be great Emo. We're definitely interested, especially because we already had someone pop in and try to put out an autotracker (which we've stopped for now and had to talk to someone actually using it for races) but one that works closely with us is a different story.
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codemann8 2019-02-25 12:20
I'm a casual player, eff all, I'm saving this and using it 100%
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Syrelash 2019-02-25 12:20
@EmoSaru I'm sure it's not said often enough. Thank you for maintaining EmoTracker for this toxic community bggLove
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codemann8 2019-02-25 12:20
They gotta ruin it for everyone
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Aroxys 2019-02-25 12:21
I don't believe you'll be able to Codemann. It's disabled completely.
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codemann8 2019-02-25 12:22
It's working for me right now
12:22
I'm saving the files
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Ekin0x 2019-02-25 12:23
@キノ oh, that's great in a way. Still hope for OOTR one day then 😛
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:23
The files will not help you. Eventually, you will lose access.
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codemann8 2019-02-25 12:24
I can disable WAN firewall access to emotracker
12:25
If I understand it correctly, it'll still work for other games, so couldn't someone create an alternate package for alttpr?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:25
No.
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greg 2019-02-25 12:26
why would you be talking to the dev about circumventing her own program lol
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codemann8 2019-02-25 12:26
Well, for one, she's the one for it
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:26
I'm not getting into the details of it, but sufficed to say, one way or another, it will stop working eventually.
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 12:26
damn I guess we won't be able to figure out the issue I was having
12:27
too bad
12:27
is the framework still in place for other games' packages to have autotracking?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:28
Yes, and that will not change.
12:28
The Super Adventure Island 2 rando pack actually just released autotracker support.
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 12:28
Was it the fact that the only for sure support was on bizhawk
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 12:28
that's very good to hear
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 12:28
Which not everyone likes to use?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:28
That had effectively nothing to do with it shippo.
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 12:29
Oh ok
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:29
at least my setup tutorial is still relevant
12:30
i would have been really sad if i wasted the 20 minutes on it LinkFace
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Wildcard 2019-02-25 12:30
soo, the autotracker for alttp, is it not possible for people who don't care about racing to use?
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 12:30
Nope
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codemann8 2019-02-25 12:30
They ruined it for everyone
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 12:30
I suspect that the mention of accessibility was a bit of a scapegoat from the alttpr mods to justify killing it so abruptly when they know that ultimately it's a kneejerk response to feedback
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:30
release it on the dark web
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 12:30
tough spot for everybody making decisions rn it seems
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Darkwolf 2019-02-25 12:31
@EmoSaru maybe, with some changes on alltpr rom, done you may reactivate the auto track for alltp in the future ?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:31
I'm not going to comment on the mods' decision making process. Whether I agree with how this stuff was handled or not, I'm friends with many of them.
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Wildcard 2019-02-25 12:31
it only worked on PC right? since you can't really connect the app to a console?
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chenzikoden 2019-02-25 12:31
I'm sad to hear that auto tracking was rescinded for LttP. I was definitely looking forward to it. Regardless, I still appreciate all the hard work you've put into this project, Emo
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:31
If the combination of the community stance and the security features of the ROM for ALTTPR ever makes it possible to support in a way that people can accept, then I will do it.
12:32
But I will just say that community in question is... the community in question.
12:32
And let me clarify
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:32
stupid enough question but... alttpr rejected it, fine. how hard would it be to use it for stuff like SM or even the combo randomizer? (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:32
I'm part of people
12:32
I have to accept that it's not just security theater.
12:32
But rather meaningful protections.
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:33
using it for other games would require people to develop relevant autotrackers for those games
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:33
In the version of the world where this was allowed in racing, I was able to say "my app does not allow bad things".
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:33
I do not know how an autotracker is made, I ain't dev
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:33
i suspect SMZ3 will have a lot of issues because of its weird sram stuff
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:33
Any version of disabling it only for LTTPR race roms is so trivial to circumvent that it's laughable. (edited)
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:33
I was asking if the actual technology that was made was "translatable" easily for other games
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:33
Yes.
12:33
One other game has already released autotracker support. See #pack-announcements
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beenieweenie 2019-02-25 12:34
I just wanted to say thank you for your hard work on this very cool feature, Emo. sakuLove
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:34
I never ever heard of that game, I just guessed it was different due to different game mechanics
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Wildcard 2019-02-25 12:34
i really only play smz3 randos for fun by myself on my switch, so don't even know how i would set it up, maybe some day.
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:34
I guessed SM also being a SNES game it could work similarly enough
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:34
SM should be doable fairly easily
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:35
for SamusDotLink yeah, there are the things that work and we don't know how it works
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 12:35
I can't say that I've ever completed super adventure island
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 12:35
@EmoSaru my condolences ... people are big on security theater anyway.
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:36
if it really was a security issue crowd control wouldn't be a thing
12:36
I fear it's just salt
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Wildcard 2019-02-25 12:37
you should open source the autotracker code so people can work on improving the security
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codemann8 2019-02-25 12:37
^^ (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:37
People have all the relevant source
12:37
My auto-tracker source is not required to see the problems.
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 12:37
I don't think it has to do with security I think it's the fact that not everyone uses emulators
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:37
also security is not the issue here
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 12:37
Some people still use hardware
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 12:38
@Nelliel (Shippo) there's two things alttr autotracking supported, one was hardware
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 12:38
the most common console hardware was supported for autotracking
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:38
@Nelliel (Shippo) My autotracker works on console as well, with the sd2snes flash cart.
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 12:38
Oh
12:38
Well nevermind than
12:38
Sorry
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codemann8 2019-02-25 12:38
That's what makes this frustrating
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Math_Girl718 2019-02-25 12:38
so what exactly was the problem
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codemann8 2019-02-25 12:38
It makes no sense (edited)
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 12:38
@Math_Girl718 mostly just "hissy fits"
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DigitalD 2019-02-25 12:38
Still having LUA issues. I changed BizHawk to the other lua engine, but I'm getting the following error when I try to load the connector: Warning: Attempted read 8257696 outside memory domain size of 131072 in readbyterange() NLua.Exceptions.LuaScriptException: [string "main"]:47: bad argument #1 to 'char' (number expected, got nil)
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Math_Girl718 2019-02-25 12:38
ignore them
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Wildcard 2019-02-25 12:38
weird, how is that possible? where would hte tracker render? would it connect over network to a pc or something?
12:39
over LAN or something?
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 12:39
usb
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 12:39
it's difficult for the alttpr mods to ignore the backlash when much of it comes from establishes community figures
12:39
it's unfortunate but i don't fault them too much for the decision
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:39
@DigitalD are you using the alttpr autotracker or the new super adventure island tracker?
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Math_Girl718 2019-02-25 12:40
doesnt mean get rid of it completely though 👀
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DigitalD 2019-02-25 12:40
alttpr
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:40
it won't work. support has been revoked
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Math_Girl718 2019-02-25 12:40
just ban it from tournaments
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Wildcard 2019-02-25 12:40
so emotracker running on a pc connected to an sd2snes cartride running in someones snes console?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:40
Yes, wildcard.
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Wildcard 2019-02-25 12:40
interesting
12:40
as a software engineer in the gaming industry myself, i'm curious what interface you're using to send/receive updates
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:41
The LTTPR community has decided who/what they want to cater to right now. I'm not interested in providing a tool that causes the admins, many of whom are friends, more work and cheating accusations.
12:41
So it's gone.
12:41
It's the same reason I didn't do it before.
12:41
I only started to work on this when I started to get support for it.
12:41
End of story.
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 12:41
the best part is that it'd also save from some hidden cheating anyway, no?
12:41
eventually?
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Math_Girl718 2019-02-25 12:42
the thing i just dont get is that there is already an autotracker in existence, it's not like people cant use that in the background but
12:42
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:42
I agree mathgirl
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codemann8 2019-02-25 12:42
They can easily cheat by watching the twitch stream of their own tournament, but I don't see them banning that!
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:42
I refuse to have my software be part of the problem
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Wildcard 2019-02-25 12:42
so some people have it now that could just not download updates packages
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Darkwolf 2019-02-25 12:42
@EmoSaru its possible to use autotracking with sd2snes 😮 how ? you have to link snes and pc ?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:42
That's all it is.
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Vampstar 2019-02-25 12:42
That's a shame because i wanted to use this as im getting into running randos i think auto tracker would be really nice for people starting out
12:43
Unfortunately people have to ruin it for others
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Darkwolf 2019-02-25 12:43
WildcardAujourd'hui à 21:42 so some people have it now that could just not download updates packages => Thats true
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 12:43
@Vampstar clicking might actually help more, for beginners who need to learn the map... probably depends on the beginner though
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:43
^ that is true
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Vampstar 2019-02-25 12:43
Ya i agree with that too, ive been learning location names due to clicking
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 12:43
@EmoSaru you should rename this channel #autotracker-emotional-support
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:44
when autotracker with voice log
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 12:44
in terms of actually teaching I would agree, but being able to just play through is certainly easier with autotracking
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:44
/tts Picked up Single Arrow in Link's House
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 12:45
the cool parts of autotracker would be the community things... perfect race tracking, know-mode automatic announcements, bots for discord, co-op race modes ... other things we haven't even thought of yet
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codemann8 2019-02-25 12:46
Yeah, a multi tracker would be nice for showing on streams when people are competing
12:47
"When did X pick up Magic Powder?" something I heard about 40 minutes ago on a stream, that wouldn't happen if there was a multi autotracker (edited)
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 12:47
well, at least i don't have to deal with bizhawk currently. lol ;)
12:48
you could have timestamps for each item per runner that were accurate.
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:48
this is a thing that actually does worry me. since the autotracker can't work on all platforms, it means this sort of thing can't be uniformly implemented as not everyone can use it
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:49
@Espeon that is a problem that gets solved over time
12:49
FYI, I haven't seen any of those linux or mac users stepping up to the plate to build their own solution and make it work
12:49
It's possible to do so
12:49
They're not.
12:49
I would love nothing more than for that to happen.
12:49
I would help them, at least with information.
12:50
But making things work is not actually their goal.
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 12:50
its not like they can't handle lua ;)
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:50
It's more than that Vaevictus. I'm not trivializing the efffort.
12:50
Did you guys know that I wrote the sd2snes support for connectorlib?
👍 1
12:50
I have literally put in the work to make this shit possible.
12:51
Others are more than welcome to step up to the fucking plate, pardon my language.
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 12:51
@EmoSaru you're amazing. we're mostly bitter on your behalf.
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codemann8 2019-02-25 12:51
As a software dev, it's hard to watch amazing software get shit on like this
❤ 2
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 12:51
^-- this
👌 2
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RidleyDragon 2019-02-25 12:51
Here’s what kills me: at the levels everyone seems to be worried about, at the level of people actually winning money
12:52
There’s no way an auto tracker is a significant competitive advantage
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codemann8 2019-02-25 12:52
They are analog players in a digital world, and that scares them
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RidleyDragon 2019-02-25 12:52
It’s all straw men arguments
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 12:53
heh... on my seed last night, i got an agahnim seed ... and on a whim i checked catfish immediately following pyramid boots... and got catfish bow. there's no way a program would help someone make that bad (but lucky) decision :D
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RidleyDragon 2019-02-25 12:53
Is there any real chance an auto tracker is going to flip a race between Andy and Christos (edited)
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 12:54
@RidleyDragon maybe it'd let Andy send info about his game to bookies to change betting payouts before things make it to twitch.
12:54
bum bum bum
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Cryorus 2019-02-25 12:58
As a casual rando player i can only say this : Thank you Emo for creating a tool that (would have) made the life of many Zelda randomizer players (and streamers) so much more comfortable. It was fun trying it out for a few minutes and i would have loved to show it of on stream but alas as some people cant even let us casuals have fun we have to go back. But thank you again for this great feature even if it was short lived
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 13:00
I'm not sure if my preferred platform for alttpr could ever be supported
13:00
snes9xgx on wiibrew lol
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 13:03
@duncathan_salt sure it could be... but you'd have to be the one to do it.
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 13:04
well the thing is I don't know how they could even interface
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 13:04
that's for you to solve.
13:04
make a REST interface to lua for emotracker and then have your special snes9xgxdcs emu send REST updates
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 13:05
The software interface is the easy part aha
13:05
the actual connection is the tricky bit
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 13:05
local http
13:05
easy
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 13:06
I think Bluetooth would be more viable
13:06
because the wii has very solid native bluetooth support
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 13:06
from a Wii ? hmm
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codemann8 2019-02-25 13:06
Why, the Wii is hooked up to http anyways
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 13:06
but any wireless solution is sus
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Sqwrly 2019-02-25 13:09
Just adding my sympathy. As a casual player it sucks that this is gone. I only learned about it about an hour before I saw the announcement in the ALTTPR Discord saying it was no longer a thing.
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:10
Believe me, I'm not happy about this. I'm sorry to everybody who got excited and no longer has access to it. I obviously believe in it, and I think it's a great tool.
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Sqwrly 2019-02-25 13:10
Yeah, I'm not blaming you.
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Beldraith 2019-02-25 13:10
Don't worry EmoSaru. It is not your fault. You did an amazing job
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codemann8 2019-02-25 13:10
@EmoSaru would you ever allow EmoTracker to use packages that you could install unofficially?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:11
No.
13:11
And autotracker is implemented in such a way as to prevent packs from trying to circumvent the restrictions.
13:11
That will not change.
13:11
Regardless of the LTTP community's decision, I refuse to compromise on protections that might benefit OTHER game communities and allow them to move forward.
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codemann8 2019-02-25 13:12
So then, as a dev, how would I go about developing a new package for a different game?
13:13
And test it
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 13:15
Yeah, see.... the new game i'm testing is called A Pink to the Last... yeah, that's the ticket.
13:15
looks at @codemann8
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codemann8 2019-02-25 13:15
🤷‍♂️
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:16
Unless your pack is very specifically developed against a game that I have registered support for, auto-tracker will not even show up in the UI.
13:16
Seriously folks, don't try to use my software to work around this.
13:17
You shouldn't try to work around this in general.
13:17
But if you insist, build your own thing.
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codemann8 2019-02-25 13:17
But how do devs test it before releasing?
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 13:19
so, christos just posted something about " prevent circumventing the Race-ROM check " ... is there something there, or is it just paranoia?
13:20
is he talking about emotracker behaving differently for race-rom vs not-racerom or something?
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:20
the autotracker did not previously distinguish between the two types
13:20
the aim is to make that the case, so that map tracking can be disabled in races
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 13:20
i see.
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:20
this is because map tracking is actually a serious advantage in a race
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 13:21
and why's map auto-tracking bad but item-auto-tracking is okay?
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:21
you can't mismark stuff
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 13:21
same with items though?
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:21
can't accidentally think you already did bottle vendor
13:21
can't accidentally forget pyramid
13:21
etc. etc.
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codemann8 2019-02-25 13:21
So...
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:21
the items are ok because you would be actively marking them down anyway. but people lose races often due to mismarks
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 13:22
i seriously don't think my manual-map-and-item-tracking ever affected my time any
13:22
huh
13:22
okay.
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 13:22
and it's usually very easy to tell if you mismarked an item
13:22
a few seconds in the inventory screen pales in comparison to going back to catfish because you forgot you'd already been there
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 13:24
i suppose my routing is bad enough that it doesn't matter
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codemann8 2019-02-25 13:26
How fickle to be upset that someone could beat you only because you're better at manually marking, rather than actual gameplay
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 13:30
heh
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 13:31
im assuming the red robot means it is not working?
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Cryorus 2019-02-25 13:31
its disabled
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 13:31
even if it says conneciton was established?
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Cryorus 2019-02-25 13:31
See announcement
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 13:31
i know i was just seeing what would happen
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 13:31
autotracker is dead, long live autotracker
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-25 13:32
press F in chat to pay respects to the autotracker
🇫 31
13:33
lol
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 13:36
how nice would it be to have a log of locations checked and items found ... and be able to automagically chart how a race diverged
13:39
" and you can tell Vaevictus needs to practice inside Tower of Hera because that's where he lost 8 minutes compared to Dudude Dude"
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:39
i'd be impressed about losing 8 minutes in hera tbh
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Vaevictus 2019-02-25 13:39
^_^
13:40
mistakenly going to a map in the basement chest would be one way to lose a good amount
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neurodaemon 2019-02-25 17:39
hello, how do I get the tracker to auto-track SMALttP randomizer?
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deserteagle417 2019-02-25 17:39
I do not believe that is supported yet.
17:40
Packs with auto-tracking support will have a blue robot next to them in the package manager.
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Cryorus 2019-02-25 17:41
And after the backlash from the ALttP com i think the combo Rando is a no for them too....
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neurodaemon 2019-02-25 17:42
I'm new to all of this so I have no idea what that means lol
17:43
the blue robot I see and you're right, it's not on SMALttP
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deserteagle417 2019-02-25 17:43
to my comment, or cryorus'?
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neurodaemon 2019-02-25 17:43
cryorus
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deserteagle417 2019-02-25 17:44
Ahh, long story short, auto-tracking caused drama in the LttPR community and it's been removed for now. That will probably spill over into SMALttP. That's all I'll say here. (edit for clarity: I was just trying to explain the comment. I am not part of the SMALttP community, so I don't know the perspectives there on the issue and do not intend to speak for them maxyyLove ) (edited)
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neurodaemon 2019-02-25 17:45
I see. good to know. Not like it's super difficult to manually track stuff, but with as many play-throughs as I have planned, my fingers are going to hurt just from clicking XD
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deserteagle417 2019-02-25 17:46
😄
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Natalie 2019-02-25 18:18
I'm part of the SMZ3 community. A player, mostly, but yeah. We saw this shitstorm coming a mile away.
18:19
The devs there are easy to work with. If they accept SMZ3 auto-tracking, they'll help set it up.
18:19
Currently the official word is up in the air.
18:22
Up in the air leaning no.
18:22
You'll probably hear from someone actually involved higher up if that changes
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 18:23
Nobody should be making this kind of decision lightly. If there's one thing we know, it's that. Just so everybody is clear on this - I don't care whether an individual community wants it or doesn't. That's 100% their choice.
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somebodys 2019-02-25 18:54
From a nonracer casuals viewpoint, auto tracker is bae. Makes the game a lot more enjoyable since it's not such a big deal if I get distracted because of the the cats/kid/wife and need to take a break to do something.
18:56
I can understand the point of view of disallowing it in races, but it seems like there can/should be some kind of happy medium. (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 18:57
Seriously folks - let's move on.
18:57
If something changes, I'm sure we'll discuss that.
18:57
But for now, let's move on.
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neurodaemon 2019-02-25 19:22
I just joined the SMZ3 community as a player as well @Natalie . heck, I'm a developer by trade, I'd be happy to help them set it up or do it myself if I knew how XD. Right there with you @somebodys I'm a total casual player and not a racer at all, never a big fan of the speed running community, aside from 100% runs on the actual console and not emulated or tool assisted. On a different topic though, how would I go about helping develop either the EmoTracker or something like SMZ3? I'd love to learn and get into the code! 😄
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Natalie 2019-02-25 19:23
EmoTracker will be closed-source for the foreseeable future. There's a lot of roadmap that needs to be adhered pretty firmly to, among other things.
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neurodaemon 2019-02-25 19:33
That doesn't really answer my question though. Is it just a close group of friends that has access to the code (then I can't help because I don't know any of the devs personally) or is it managed by a company of some sort that I could potentially apply for? I'll ask my becoming a developer question for SMZ3 on that discord
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 19:40
It is me.
19:40
I am the person.
19:40
There are no others.
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neurodaemon 2019-02-25 19:50
oh.. well then... close group of friends = 1 person, good to know! BTW, your tracker is cool
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Espeon 2019-02-25 20:19
honestly i'm not expecting smz3 autotracking
20:21
the SRAM and such is super duper funky for that game, and a lot of hackery was involved to even make everything work in the first place. i'm not sure if it'll be able to read stuff properly (i know it's not sram trace etc. but still)
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Sahsha 2019-02-25 20:31
As a casual player, I'm sad the thing that would help me get better easier came and went in just a few hours while I was at work.
20:32
EmoSaru, thank you for everything you try to do for everyone.
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Natalie 2019-02-25 20:34
It could be a couple of very simple tweaks on one or both ends to allow crossover tracking. But it has to be accepted as an option by the SMZ3 community and then we can spitball on how to do the thing.
20:37
The data is always in SRAM in predictable places, but special game-specific data is switched into WRAM as necessary so that Samus can deliver items to Link and vice versa.
20:39
There is definitely a flag in RAM which tells us which game is active; you'd have to update items owned based on that. In the event of a cold restart, you'd be in the dark until you either read SRAM or enter the appropriate games.
20:40
It's not obscenely difficult by any means, but would be a notable chore to do.
20:41
And since you don't get items in Z3 until you save in SM...
20:41
Well, let's just say it's easier, in a sense, if we dedicated a section of WRAM to mirror the inventory state of both games at once.
20:42
We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
20:42
If they decide they want to go there.
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Sahsha 2019-02-25 20:44
That's a really good idea actually.
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total 2019-02-25 21:44
There are already autotrackers for SMZ3 I think, I've helped a few people to get it to work
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Seraphin Eveles 2019-02-25 21:44
Are there?
21:44
Because I'd be very interested in that
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total 2019-02-25 21:45
I don't think any of them have been officialy released though yet
21:46
It's still being debated how to best deal with it, but I'm leaning towards just allowing it since there wouldn't be much I could do about it anyway if people just wanted to use it
21:47
And I'd rather just have people have fun with it and be able to use tools they want to use to make their gameplay fun
👍 4
❤ 3
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 21:48
FYI, my existing list of published pack authors all have access to my LTTPR autotracker script as reference, so I expect that as soon as there's a call re: SMZ3, somebody will start working on it. (edited)
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Natalie 2019-02-25 21:48
They know where to find us.
21:48
Lay the framework, give them the go-ahead and the details, it'll get done.
21:49
SMZ3 just happens to be an interesting use case because of the RAM switching positions.
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Espeon 2019-02-25 22:30
oh we already have them.
22:30
well, i think we should allow it honestly
22:31
unless anyone in the rather small smz3 community has any vocal objections about it because they can't use it on mac or something
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total 2019-02-25 23:43
I'll make sure to get community feedback before making any final decision on it
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Pennyroyal_Oil 2019-02-25 23:46
Can recommend that course of action
Jebaited 3
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total 2019-02-25 23:46
I'll go through the memory addresses as well for a whitelist, should be most of the ALTTP ones plus a bunch more needed
23:47
There will be some overlap as well since RAM is switched out, so allowing required SM address ranges for example will allow reading unrelated ALTTP memory from those same addresses
23:47
not much to do about that, and having a whitelist is only a "soft" security thing anyway so it doesn't matter much
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Natalie 2019-02-25 23:48
do we have WRAM to spare for the "static inventory definition location" thing
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 23:49
Yeah. SMZ3 is an interesting case due to the swapping. There may be things we can do in the tracker to make this work more reliably, like conditions on whitelist entries and more direct control over the timing of individual segment reads.
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Zembar 2019-02-25 23:50
I'm guessing real security would involve heavy obfuscation of the data inside the rom, with writing only whitelisted data to a safe ordered space
23:50
which is basically "good luck" territory on snes hardware
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Natalie 2019-02-25 23:50
anything you do to the game, the game has to be able to undo
23:50
so the data is there to undo it
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Zembar 2019-02-25 23:50
of course
23:51
binary obfuscation is real news though, but the performance hit is... let's just say significant
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 23:51
LTTPR has done encryption on some things, like item tables, in race roms. And yes, there is a noticeable hitch when opening chests as a result.
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Natalie 2019-02-25 23:51
you'll only ever get security of that sort by separating the conditions of gameplay functions and item locations
23:51
e.g. a client-server environment
23:51
and even then.
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Zembar 2019-02-25 23:51
encryption in an environment like that is a band-aid though
23:52
unless you have a trusted key environment
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 23:52
Client server is less to do with fully preventing cheating. The bigger win is attribution due it mandatory authentication and connection requirements
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Zembar 2019-02-25 23:52
and I doubt someone will implement some sort of unified trust zone for sd2snes and emulators
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 23:52
None of this software is secure
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Zembar 2019-02-25 23:52
of course
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 23:53
It’s about guarding against the trivial 99% of users stuff
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Zembar 2019-02-25 23:53
indeed
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 23:53
So the best angle to focus on in the future, imo, is tying people to their runs.
23:53
From a security standpoint
23:53
Can’t stop cheating
23:53
Can make it easier to determine who did it
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Zembar 2019-02-25 23:55
part of me wants to make a proof of concept tool to show how easy it would be to cheat, but a much larger part doesn't want such a tool readily available
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 23:55
There are things the sd2snes firmware could potentially do.
23:55
It has a more or less full address space mirror through bus snooping (edited)
23:55
And an RTc
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Zembar 2019-02-25 23:55
that's nifty
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total 2019-02-25 23:56
Yeah the encryption in alttpr is a very thin layer of security
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 23:56
So it’s not impossible to build an RSA style token system
23:56
For rolling authentication
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Zembar 2019-02-25 23:56
it's like when I did a shallow audit of the top ten password and image hiding programs in the ios app store like seven years back
23:56
most of the image hiders just put images in a different folder
23:57
my favorite one just encrypted everything using "supercalifragilisticexpialidocius" as the aes key
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 23:57
Lmao
23:57
👌
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total 2019-02-25 23:59
But even if encryption of a randomizer is strong enough to be hard to crack, as long as the ROM can be played it doesn't stop anyone from just handing the ROM to a friend and just have that friend play it at 2x speed to figure out item locations, and just do a sneaky co-op
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 23:59
Yup.
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total 2019-02-25 23:59
The only way to stop that would be to make sure the ROM can only be played on one console/emulator by using some authentication system that provides decryption in real time
00:00
and will detect if another client is asking for data
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:00
Client server type stuff can help there too, insofar as with a required network connection we can distribute blank roms and items just in time
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:00
it can never be strong enough to be hard to crack since the encryption key needs to be in plaintext pretty much, and the crypto needs to run in something approaching reasonable time on snes hardware
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Natalie 2019-02-26 00:00
we are rapidly approaching "wow that's infeasible" status
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:00
in the first place
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:00
But there are all sorts of logistical issues, and if you think people are complaining now...
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total 2019-02-26 00:01
Yeah I don't see that happening for any regular tournament, it would have to be for some specific tournament where that kind of security is strongly needed and people are aware of it long in advance
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:01
is there even a hardware ID to use on most platforms?
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total 2019-02-26 00:01
You can just store a guid in each ROM I guess and hand out different ones to each racer
00:02
and then only let one client connect with that specific ROM
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:02
I’ve had a design for it for a while, but it’s really intended to be used for long term league play, where many of the matches can’t be monitored by humans in real time
00:02
If the roms are blank, it’s really just down to allowed connections to a session (edited)
00:03
Where we have many more solutions available
00:03
The upshot is largely eliminating item table inspection as a practical concern, and almost necessarily building a complete model of play suitable for retroactive cheat detection and analysis.
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:04
the guid solution would essentially be a canary trap, and would need to rely on secrecy to work
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:05
I’ve seen things like that used, not generally, but on suspected cheaters. It can be effective in some cases, but it relies on a lot of social factors. (edited)
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:05
hmm
00:05
I guess using something like the auto tracker and actually only feeding the seed information on the fly would work
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:05
Not guids, necessarily, but otherwise special roms.
00:05
Yes
00:05
Blank roms
00:05
Items on demand
00:05
Was my approach
00:05
Again, all just design speculation at this point
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total 2019-02-26 00:06
Yep, that'd be the only actual way of preventing cheating
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:06
that's the only obviously feasible approach I'll see
00:07
would suck if your connection drops though 😄
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:07
It would
00:07
But that’s an event logistics issue
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total 2019-02-26 00:07
I don't think it'd be that hard to implement actually, but implementing it in a good and secure way requires some thought
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:07
The main thing is, I’m convinced the half solutions offer next to no value
00:07
So you either do nothing, or go full on
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total 2019-02-26 00:08
You'd have to add a bunch of SNES ASM code to deal with connection loss and stuff and make sure it can retry if something goes bad
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:08
I mean, it could use some interesting stuff like verifying it would be possible to reach items in the time between requests
00:08
to detect shenanigans
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total 2019-02-26 00:08
It's something I've wanted to try to implement for a while though, just to see how it would work
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:08
Doing that in real time isn’t worth it, but the data is naturally generated for retroactive analysis
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total 2019-02-26 00:09
Yeah, just storing the data for a session should be good enough to use as a control for cheating later if needed
00:09
Would also lower the complexity a bit on the server side to make sure it works better
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:09
that stuff can be crunched offline
00:10
much better than causing delays leading to in-game weirdness
00:10
such as the item not being placed in the chest before you open it
00:10
ideally you'd sort this stuff out when loading the room
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:11
Yeah, that’s the idea
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:13
I haven't dug into that code, what kind of time do you have during the room load before item information is needed?
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total 2019-02-26 00:14
For chests I think you have up until you actually try to open a chest
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:14
if you can request at the start of a transition and only need it at the very end, that's a lot of time
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total 2019-02-26 00:14
but for standing items that needs to be shown directly it'd be something you need to know right away pretty much
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:14
We already have support for obfuscating freestanding prizes
00:14
The holiday festive mode renders all of them as 🎁
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total 2019-02-26 00:15
I think that should be an emergency solution though, because it changes gameplay a lot
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:15
So the main thing is supporting updating the sprite in some reasonable time, but there’s a fair fallback
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total 2019-02-26 00:15
the fact that you can scout items that you can't get yet is a big part of routing
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:15
I think that’s down to the predictive code
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total 2019-02-26 00:15
but yeah, maybe just load it as a box and then switch out the sprite as soon as it's loaded
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:16
I loved that part of the festive rando
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:16
For example cave 45 should be populated along with that dark world overworld screen, if you have the mirror
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:16
made that lumberjack item even more trolly
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total 2019-02-26 00:17
I mean in most cases you should be able to put in a request for item data and have it back within at most 10 frames, so loading should be too bad
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:17
the next problem then becomes implementing a secure protocol for the item transfer
00:18
🤔
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total 2019-02-26 00:18
Does it even need to go over a secure protocol though, not sure if that matters much
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:18
not for most of it
00:19
but if you get the cave 45 item just by walking past it, for example
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total 2019-02-26 00:19
Yeah I don't think that's a great idea to load that much in advance
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:19
Yeah, that’s why I think conditions are important
00:19
The more state the service has, the better you can be
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:19
indeed
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:19
Just room/screen ID isn’t enough
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:19
never trust the client
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:20
But that plus inventory gets you a lot
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total 2019-02-26 00:20
I think you'd be fine to trust the client here, just implement enough logging that you can detect if the client was cheating
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:20
^
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KatDevsGames 2019-02-26 00:20
needs corner case code
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Seraphin Eveles 2019-02-26 00:21
Well this conversation seems to have escalated quickly.
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KatDevsGames 2019-02-26 00:21
the inside of cave 45 and the inside of the graveyard ledge are in the same room, about 2 tiles of wall between them, locked camera
00:21
as one example
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:22
Yeah, but they’re accessed via totally separate overworld indices
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KatDevsGames 2019-02-26 00:22
yeah you would need
00:22
entrance plus room id
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:22
Yeah, which is easy, frankly
00:22
And inventory is effectively implicit on the server
00:22
As chests are handed out
00:23
So long as it’s running the logic
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:23
the fun part will be deciding what the "oh crap I never got an item" item will be
00:23
404 rupees?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:24
It will be the new “please wait, reconnecting and repairing” text box lol
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total 2019-02-26 00:24
in case an item wasn't loaded yet when you try to open a chest I'd suggest to have the game wait there until it can actually load it
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KatDevsGames 2019-02-26 00:24
either wait or attach a state to an IOU item in a table
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Natalie 2019-02-26 00:25
none of them are the best solution
00:25
picking up an item could immediately change your routing
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:25
ten minutes later you'll know if you're in go-mode or just have a lot of arrows
00:25
😉
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KatDevsGames 2019-02-26 00:25
don't use comcast ^
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Natalie 2019-02-26 00:25
if it takes time to open the chest, you're losing RTA
00:25
if it takes time to learn the item, you're losing routing time
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:25
well, under normal circumstances you'd lose neither
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total 2019-02-26 00:25
I think most peoples connections are stable enough to handle the traffic this would cause
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Natalie 2019-02-26 00:25
and potentially RTA if it's a key
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KatDevsGames 2019-02-26 00:25
well normally you'd buffer at room boundaries
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:26
RTA is better, because we can compute and credit time lost
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:26
we're talking seconds here
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total 2019-02-26 00:26
keys could be placed in the ROM I guess
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:26
which is a lot
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KatDevsGames 2019-02-26 00:26
time crediting
00:26
that's measurable
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:26
any time lost will be made up by the autotracker LinkFace
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:26
Lmao
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KatDevsGames 2019-02-26 00:27
the game can even log total wait frames to sram and display it somewhere
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:27
Yep.
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total 2019-02-26 00:28
The sd2snes supports the S-RTC right?
00:28
So could just use that for accurate timing I guess if it's good enough
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:28
the obvious problem with this solution is that it will definitely force certain hardware or emulators on people in tournaments
00:28
at least tournaments that use it
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KatDevsGames 2019-02-26 00:29
yes
00:29
sd2snes supports s-rtc but it's super coarse
00:29
if the turnaround is 450ms
00:29
even rough frames would be way better than seconds
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:30
And yes, it has a lot of requirements to do it properly. It’s a good solution, but a hard community and logistics problem
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:30
but for sd2snes you would surely use another timer
00:30
rather than an emulated chip
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total 2019-02-26 00:31
Yeah just counting frames should be good enough
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:31
since you're already writing to memory, writing that information to a nice place should hardly be rocket science
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KatDevsGames 2019-02-26 00:31
and trust an OS timer?
00:31
that could well be even worse?
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:31
well, sd2snes has other hardware
00:31
no?
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KatDevsGames 2019-02-26 00:31
the nmi timer is also accurate
00:32
or else you wouldn't be able to see the picture
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total 2019-02-26 00:32
Does Z3 turn off NMI at some point?
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KatDevsGames 2019-02-26 00:32
yeah, when you transition indoor/outdoor
00:32
it has to turn off the thing to upload a huge amount of vram
00:33
but
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total 2019-02-26 00:33
ah okay, figured it would, SM turns it off and on a bunch as well messing with the timer since I've been lazy and not adjusted for that yet
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KatDevsGames 2019-02-26 00:33
that's only meaningful for a long-term timer
00:33
for measuring a short thing
00:33
we're fine
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total 2019-02-26 00:33
also hard resets breaks my game timer in combo rando a lot as well 😃
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KatDevsGames 2019-02-26 00:33
we just only measure while the screen is on
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total 2019-02-26 00:34
But yeah, for just measuring this NMI should be perfectly accurate
00:34
or well, accurate down to 16.6ms steps
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KatDevsGames 2019-02-26 00:34
which is the best we can hope for when measuring internet latency tbh
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total 2019-02-26 00:35
I honestly think there won't be any issues at all in the majority of games played with a system like this (edited)
00:36
Worst case round-trip latency assuming there's only one server would probably be around 150ms, so within 10 frames
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:37
there is a non-network version
00:38
which involves deploying a heavily obfuscated server at the user
00:38
which can handle the exection overhead (edited)
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total 2019-02-26 00:38
That'll remove the benefits of server-side logs though
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:38
Certainly possible, although I’d rather just do a two stage download.
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total 2019-02-26 00:38
which is a big part of making it secure
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:38
it could generate encrypted logs
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:38
I think the pure model is best
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:38
probably
00:39
but it could bypass connectivity concerns
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:39
But you could,p download more blocks in advance, encrypted, to that intermediate app
00:39
You never eliminate the server, it just buffers out some connectivity issues
00:39
But frankly, I wouldn’t start there
00:39
Because it’s a definite compromise
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total 2019-02-26 00:39
Assuming there will be any issues, I don't think that's a major concern
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:39
nah, a proof of concept wouldn't encrypt anything
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total 2019-02-26 00:40
Most people have reasonable internet connections these days, if they can stream a race they can surely get a few bytes of item data now and then
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:40
right now peple can submit vods if they disconnect though
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:40
At the end of the day, if the power goes out in a stadium, the game gets cancelled.
00:40
If one stadium keeps losing power, they lose their team.
00:40
Same principle.
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KatDevsGames 2019-02-26 00:41
that's life
00:41
it's not our job to maintain their internet
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:41
Be tolerant of sporadic errors. If you’ve got habitually shit internet, then sorry you’re out until you fix it.
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:42
it should also be small enough amounts of data to make a tether viable
00:43
in case of emergency
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total 2019-02-26 00:45
Another benefit of a system like this would be that it'll enable server-side tracking for restreams right out of the box pretty much
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KatDevsGames 2019-02-26 00:45
I watch twitch off of my tether all the time
00:45
this will be fine
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:45
Indeed it would, total
00:45
Indeed it would
00:45
Hence the reason I’ve been thinking about the whole problem holistically
00:45
They share a lot of data and functionality
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:46
you'd basically only need to correct for stream delay
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total 2019-02-26 00:46
should be easy enough give that you'd timestamp items anyway
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:46
moving the on screen timer to the tracker would then make sense
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:47
I’ve been wondering about custom rtmp stuff
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:47
I've written an rtmp server once
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:47
If we could work with the OBS guys and attach metadata to frames
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:47
in a previous life
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:47
We could actually start auto-syncing racer streams, as well as the tracker timeline
00:48
By attaching IGT data
00:49
Basically a secondary timecode stream
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:50
I think plugins can do that
00:51
other than that, taking the time code from the stream is probably easier
00:51
than trying to modify OBS
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:51
I mean, this is all tier 3+ stuff. Point is, there’s a LOT we could do over time.
00:51
Yeah, I mean, correlating tracker timeline to video is easier, because we can do it in either direction
00:52
Correlating two racer streams is different
00:52
Although I guess we could capture each stream time when we detect a start
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:52
you'll end up with an offset either way
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 00:52
Yeah
00:53
Alright, just looked at the clock... bedtime for me, lol.
00:53
This was a fun chat though. Thanks!
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Natalie 2019-02-26 00:53
delaying the faster streams is better than accelerating the slower ones, unless you LIKE paradoxes
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Zembar 2019-02-26 00:53
Sleep well!
00:53
I like talking about security stuff, comes with the job 😉
00:53
it's my job to break these things
00:54
so I know what's usually annoying to deal with and what's trivial
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PhntmBlackIce 2019-02-26 06:54
Sorry to hear the auto tracker got canceled I was looking toward using for my casual play Maybe another time.
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fylion 2019-02-26 07:08
That was a fun read.
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KatDevsGames 2019-02-26 13:06
@BambooleanLogic see convo back 13hrs
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:12
I was in a long conversation at GDQ on the subject of server-side items fetched on demand
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fylion 2019-02-26 13:12
You both were.
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:14
It basically boiled down to - So let's do A - Okay, but what about <potential abuse X> - Okay, so let's do A' and B - That'll expose the possibility of Y - What about A'', B', C, D and a cryptographically secure E - Literally nobody would play this game
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Kanzeon 2019-02-26 13:16
sakuS
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:16
I think it's important to understand that it doesn't have to perfectly secure, just analyzable. I don't care if somebody cheated at some point - I assume people have. It's all about being able to look at the data and evaluate it later.
13:17
Perfectly stopping cheating in real time is not really feasible in any practical way.
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:19
One of the ideas tossed around was some kind of... I dunno... rolling hash of some kind. If I recall the idea correctly, its initial (presumably individually randomized) value would be displayed at the start, then it would be updated based on the request-response pairs it partook in, with the final result being displayed in the credits for verification
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Kanzeon 2019-02-26 13:19
Imagine people saying Tabletop Simulator is a bad game because people can cheat in it
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:19
The idea was to try to prevent a modified game or third party from making extra requests or something
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Kanzeon 2019-02-26 13:19
I think rolling hash is illegal in most states
🇨🇦 1
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:20
I don't remember the details and I've gotten so little sleep during the last few nights that the random buzzwords I'm throwing out to try to reconstruct it probably make no fucking sense
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:21
I think there are solutions to that on the service side, largely from an authentication and connection limiting standpoint.
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:21
the main concern was how one would prevent an attacker from injecting additional requests to the server and gain extra item information
13:24
One idea I had was to make a graph of all item locations in the game and the minimum travel times between them, given different sets of equipment. The server would analyze all the item locations requested and compute whether or not the path was realistic
13:25
Granted, that'll only stop large "what's at the other side of the world" attacks. It's less suitable for stopping "let's not take the four second detour to check this location" attacks
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:27
In the end this is mostly a thought experiment. I cant see any large community adopt this tbh simply for the fact that console players would be required to hook up their console to the PC for always online. Or N64 where most people have an everdrive you cant even connect to begin with as the cheaper and older revs lack the USB port
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:28
My response to that is that anything like this would be used for more serious competition, with prize pools. That is frankly all the justification needed to say "anybody who wants to play, these are the rules"
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:29
Maybe better to hold these kinda tournaments in person then to stop this very effectively and only have qualifiers online for example. But yeah, if you want to do a price pool tournament strictly online this could work
13:29
a lot of effort however
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:30
Yeah, we did discuss sanity checking travel times, or rather simply logging them for offline checks later
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:30
Not as much effort as some people might think, but it's certainly a fair bit of work, no doubt. It's a platform investment though - it's not a one-time deal.
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:31
If there seems to be shenanigans there will still be the vod to check if the requests were legit
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:31
Yeah for sure. I already know OoTR community would reject it for a lot of reasons, so I wouldnt even bother making something like this, but for the entire platform for maybe other communities that could be interested having a framework would be kinda nice
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:33
Ultimately, it's all theory at this point.
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:33
It was an interesting discussion though
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:33
But I think as the stakes get higher, so too must the investment in running it effectively.
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:34
Most forms of esport or similar where money gets involved have some form of anti-cheating measures
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:34
yeah, but it still wouldnt stop common stuff like doing a secret coop unless you entirely monitor the person with tracking everywhere. Hence, doing it in person, where you can
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:35
It actually does stop that
13:35
The rom is blank
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:35
Who would you coop with?
13:35
The opponent?
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:35
another player in the tournament? talking about not 1 vs 1^
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:35
Oh, sure, but there are ways to track that down
13:35
Fortunately the analytics over time will show statistical issues for players
13:36
That's the whole point
13:36
Prevent some attacks in real time
13:36
Provide data for detecting other things retroactively
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:36
For 1v1 I’d say it’s very robust
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:36
yeah, I thought about making a tracker to analyze suspicious decisions over a longer period. Not sure if console always online is the best approach for that, but tracking what the player does in some way, even visually, could work
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:37
And you wouldn’t have to crunch data so much as have the tracker replay next to the vod when verifying
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:37
for non-1v1 competition
13:37
there are issues that rely on data analysis
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:37
I think one of the ideas that was proposed at some point was to make the game output some value given by the server at each request onto the screen for later OCR analysis to ensure that the game itself is aware of all requests made to the server, limiting the ability for external tools to inject additional item location requests
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:38
That's certainly possible
13:38
Although I'd argue that's just an optimization on the fundamental model
13:38
Allowing the computer to do more of the initial investigation
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:39
Another potential source of data is the idea of the SRAM log (that was never implemented, was it?)
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:39
And again those requests will not match what’s happening on the stream
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:39
Logging all events in the game, then requiring participants to upload the final SRAM for analysis
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:39
If I were looking for cheaters
13:40
I'd be looking primarily at "percentage of statistically correlated checks being skipped"
13:40
basically, when people check things as groups, and you check one and leave
13:40
or however many standard deviations you filter on
13:40
but in general, that is the pattern for cheaters
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:40
yeah, we caught one in OoTR recently
13:41
he did one check and skipped all the 5 others people always do or turned around mid 180 occasionally. It was very obviously stream sniping the other players
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:42
I’m not sure what’s more sad
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:42
cheaters arent exactly doing this stuff very smartly
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:42
Yeah. In 1v1 matches you do it based on historical data. In n-way matches, it's historical data weighted against the data for the current match
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:42
Cheating or doing it badly
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:42
Can't we just say "Deep learning" and call it a day?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:42
Sure
13:42
ML for the win
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:42
have a neural network
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rand(0) 2019-02-26 13:42
i've done that before when playing against people that are better than me (not fully clearing locations)
13:43
not an uncommon strategy to give yourself an edge at the cost of RNG being on your side
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:43
it is definetly fine and not suspicious occasionally, hence longer term monitoring
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fylion 2019-02-26 13:43
Smallhacker: Deep Learning
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:43
^
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:43
it gets weird when someone does it nearly all the time and somehow it always works out
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:43
it's not weird
13:43
it's suspicious
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:43
Or rather, raise flags when that happens and use more hands on methods to verify (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:43
this thing can't ban anybody
13:43
it can only flag them
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Mihalo 2019-02-26 13:43
but he played on feeling dragonbane :>
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:44
yeah thats the idea
13:44
you dont want to punish someone playing risky after all. But there are patterns which are almost dead giveaways (edited)
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rand(0) 2019-02-26 13:45
i still feel like any randomizer race should be streamed with a time delay
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:45
The game usually takes care of the punishment in the risk-taking play department
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:45
It'd be interesting to have a model of "How likely is any given action in any given situation", then correlate sudden unlikely actions with other players finding major items
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:45
To prevent any possible sniping you would need reeeeeally long delays
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:45
yeah, its fine in a tournament setting imo
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rand(0) 2019-02-26 13:46
30 minute delays should be perfectly fine
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:46
The delays typically in use are usually enough that you’re reacting to something unlikely to make a difference at that point
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rand(0) 2019-02-26 13:46
talking about randomizers of oot-length
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:46
for qualifiers we opted against it because people should still be able to use their chat and have fun
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:46
Yes, smallhacker, for sure. I think the best thing about having good data is the ability to correlate players
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:46
I think we do 20 mins in the brackets phase
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:47
Not just, "was player A" cheating
13:47
but "who were they potentially cheating with"
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:47
or cheating off from in the case of multiple where the stream is available. Was the case for our guy. Always the same person too which made it obvious he was watching that stream
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:47
and obviously multiplying by a billion for each correlation with the same person
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:48
yup
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:48
It’s always the milk man
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:48
stream delays are fine tools, but they're far from perfect
13:48
and can be more or less effective depending on the seed
13:49
they're also kind of a logistical nightmare
13:49
I'm in favor of better experiences all around, but with more accountability
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:49
On one hand, stream delays only reduce the usefulness of the attack. On the other hand, if you need to snipe with a 30m delay in ALTTPR, you're probably not going to win anyway
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:49
Adding some delay will nearly always be good just to reduce the temptation to sneak a peek
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:50
It's very easy for two 50/50s to lead to a valuable piece of info coming after 20 minutes
13:50
which was the delay last tournament
13:50
often times, when players diverge, they're both making progress
13:50
it's just a question of which progress
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:51
I guess that's true
13:51
Alternatively
13:51
A novel approach
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:52
Here is our guy: https://youtu.be/zrSvnrU8ttk?t=29 He was literally doing this 5 matches in a row several times. His intuition to smell when someone else around him got a major item was very strong
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:52
lmao
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rand(0) 2019-02-26 13:52
ok well that's way too obvious haha
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:52
its great
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:53
so, the real benefit of a system like this is catching people who aren't this terrible at cheating
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fylion 2019-02-26 13:53
You know that little stutterstep every rando player does when they're deciding where to go and waffling for a second? If you do keep doing it in the same circumstances it's not for the reason everyone else is doing it.
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:53
We enforce various stupid restrictions: Stream delays, specialized cryptographic hardware, two-factor authentication every boss fight, forced SRAM upload and a contract signed in blood. Then, we announce Randobot2000, a neural network trained on countless hours of past ALTTPR broadcasts to spot cheating and correlate behavior. Then we do nothing and hope nobody dares to even try to cheat.
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:54
yeah this is at least a good test candidate for any reasonable system. That movement trajectory combined with the time when that item was gotten and the other player got it should trigger a big red flag lul
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:54
Honestly the psychological warfare approach is not without merit, lol
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fylion 2019-02-26 13:54
Smallhacker that only works if you stop publicly posting my plan.
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rand(0) 2019-02-26 13:55
what exactly is the point of uploading the SRAM?
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:55
I like this contract idea
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:55
I love that we still use "2000" as a "cool sounding" suffix even though it's 19 effin years in the past at this point
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:55
tbh you probably cant prevent any form of cheating. Just make it annoying af and the idiots wont bother. And the idiotic cheaters are the majority
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rand(0) 2019-02-26 13:55
isn't that just your savegame?
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:56
rand(0): That refers to the idea of having the game log and timestamp everything that happens in the game for later analysis and comparison
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Natalie 2019-02-26 13:56
2000 is buzzword for 21st century technology
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:56
The problem is that you don’t know if the idiotic cheaters are the majority
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:56
I'm over 2000, get hype for EmoTracker5000 (Hey Ya Edition) https://giphy.com/gifs/agree-alright-all-right-XT8TJ9TsxkmLm
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:56
If the non-idiots don’t get caught
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:56
Fair enough, thats a statement out of my ass I dont know whether or not it is true. Just a feeling I have
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rand(0) 2019-02-26 13:56
oh so it would act as a database file that logs every opened chest and the route taken?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:57
Frankly, uploading that AND having the server log would be nice
13:57
"Oh, I see you manipulated your SRAM file before uploading"
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:57
The problem with having that in sram being that it could potentially be manipulated in itself
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rand(0) 2019-02-26 13:58
if matches are streamed, what reason would anybody have to manipulate the sram though?
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:58
Well, my original idea (I have an elaborate protocol specification in a google doc somewhere) was to do a detailed log of everything in the game to later generate statistics, automatically compare and analyze players' routes for postgame commentary etc
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:58
The server client model would be a thing because it’s external
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 13:58
Zembar: The point is to have an additional thing that needs to match everything else
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 13:58
as soon as you bring always online into it I cant imagine anyone still cheating unless he is ballsy as hell or first reverses how the server-client stuff works to see if he could get around that. And not many people know how to do that. So this would catch most of them
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Zembar 2019-02-26 13:58
That I can agree with
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 13:59
the good thing about data is
13:59
there's no perfect data
13:59
so while bad data is bad
13:59
overly good data is also bad
13:59
from a cheating detection
13:59
I think the odds of significant attacks in that way are low
13:59
but having data let's you work both ways (edited)
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:00
It’s like when Fred Astaire said the hardest thing he ever did in a movie was to pretend he couldn’t dance
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 14:00
the good thing is if someone manages to fool the system, eventually he would probably mess up. Or statistically speaking over time he would get more brazen about it. That nearly always happens. A slip up at some point. Even if someone found a way to perfectly inperfectly manipulate all the data in his favour. Which is already quite unlikely
14:00
so eventually you catch nearly everyone
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:00
It’s hard to fake being bad as well
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 14:00
sooner or later
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:00
And everyone makes mistakes
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Ninban 2019-02-26 14:00
Astaire is right, it's hard to cheat while pretending you're not
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fylion 2019-02-26 14:00
i enjoy when people fake being bad.
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rand(0) 2019-02-26 14:00
wouldn't you need a really large sample size for any conclusive data?
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 14:01
well you would get that over time
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rand(0) 2019-02-26 14:01
it seems like a system that is somewhat prone to error
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:01
yes, although we have a lot of data already
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fylion 2019-02-26 14:01
My favourite artificial badness is when someone stands in a room for 30s for no reason, repeatedly.
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dragonbane0 2019-02-26 14:01
the best thing is obviously that you can eventually catch nearly everyone, not neccesarily that you catch them tomorrow
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:01
^
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:02
Although you can probably round up like 90% in the tomorrow end of the timescale
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 14:02
What is the likelyhood of non-repeat offenders? As in, someone who cheats once, gets away with it, then doesn't do it for subsequent games? (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:03
If people only knew how much telemetry data was collected by literally any online FPS game out there
14:03
It's VERY sophisticated at this point
14:03
I think low, smallhacker
14:03
But they're also less important
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 14:03
true
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:04
The technical barrier here would also make most methods of cheating not worth it for a one off anyway
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:05
One thing that I think people who don't understand ML miss is that this system thinks every is cheating to some extent. It's just a question of probability inferring a confidence.
14:05
It's a big part of the PR problem
14:06
Any time google images decides something is a cat, it's not because it's a cat. It's because it's 5x more likely it's a cat as opposed to a 1972 Chevy (edited)
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:06
I bet they can both purr though
🤔 1
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 14:06
obviously, it would flag suspicious instances (with some high threshold) for later human analysis
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:07
yeah, nothing beyond that makes sense
14:07
at least not in 2019
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 14:07
giving it the mandate to autoban people is asking for trouble
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:07
The kill bots come later MrDestructoid
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 14:07
that, and judgment day
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:08
Given recent developments, I just never say never to anything involving AI at this point lol
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 14:09
While AI is getting better by the hour, there is very limited trickle-down to minor niche applications like rando competitions
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:09
I say never to lots of things about AI
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 14:09
we're not exactly getting Google's help with this
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:10
But mostly because AI is a buzzword and now you have to explain to marketers why a support ticket isn’t AI
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Natalie 2019-02-26 14:11
marketers are very deliberately stupider than the average human 🤔
14:11
but presented as the opposite
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 14:11
AIs are nowhere near the intelligence of an average human. The marketers trying to sell it, on the other hand...
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:12
They're good at very particular things
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 14:12
The AI or marketers?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:12
Yes
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 14:12
ah
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total 2019-02-26 14:19
I've started some work on this already today btw for Super Metroid rando since that's the game I know the best and there's only one routine to patch really
14:19
The client/server data model though would be generic
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:19
Well, a proof of concept needs to start somewhere
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total 2019-02-26 14:20
Yeah I figured it'd be a nice way to test some ideas at least
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BambooleanLogic 2019-02-26 14:20
Concept = Concept Q.E.D.
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:21
Just being able to query a simple little app would do most of the work
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total 2019-02-26 14:22
My initial plan was to just write the app as a webapp, and have that connect to the websocket for usb2snes
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:22
Like, “what item is at location x?” “Item y” and that’s it
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total 2019-02-26 14:23
I know multitroid works like that now, and it seems to work reasonably well
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:23
Yeah, for strictly sd2snes support, that’s a good way to go
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:23
Yeah. I guess this stuff comes in handy for multi world shenanigans too
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total 2019-02-26 14:24
They do emulator support through qusb2snes, which uses the same websocket protocol, but also supports a lua bridge for snes9x, and snes classic support
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:24
Oh nice (edited)
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total 2019-02-26 14:25
and it's written in c++/qt, so it should be multiplatform capable
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:25
That covers a lot of users
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:25
Interestingly, if it supports the same web socket protocol, my tracker already works with it
14:25
The existing sd2snes connector should be compatible
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total 2019-02-26 14:26
oh yeah, that should work
14:26
It also works with the snes9x 2010 core in retroarch I think
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:26
That’s pretty huge
14:26
I’m going to look into this more
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total 2019-02-26 14:27
because that has retroachivement support, and that support lets you read/write to emulator core ram
14:27
over an UDP socket as long as that's enabled in retroarch
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:27
As it potentially affects some other conversations I’m in...
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total 2019-02-26 14:28
I'm gonna do some testing of my own as well, but I know Skarsnik is actively working on qusb2snes as well, and if some more work is needed there I'll probably help out on that project a bit as well
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:28
This sounds more convenient than I would have thought
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:28
Looks like retroarch support was removed 15 days ago
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total 2019-02-26 14:29
But yeah, having a websocket connection open that supports most platforms is pretty neat since it allows for a simple webpage to connect to it and do things without having to install more programs
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:29
For sure
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:30
That’s a much easier sell than asking people to install a black box
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total 2019-02-26 14:30
So in this case you'd just get a special permalink that would use the websocket and stream the data as needed
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:31
It's possible that at a certain point, the black box would need to happen, but that point is pretty specific and not necessarily necessary.
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total 2019-02-26 14:31
Well the black box can live in server-side code a bit now on the webserver
14:31
that the user never sees
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:31
yeah
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:31
Well, yeah
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total 2019-02-26 14:31
You'd just use client-side scripts to pass data (edited)
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:32
Hence no need to install it
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total 2019-02-26 14:32
But the actual generation and parsing of data would be done server-side
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:34
With the access to vods and ability to sanity check request times and orders, that could do nearly all of it
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total 2019-02-26 14:34
Hopefully I can get some kind of proof of concept of this working in a reasonable time frame
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:34
You could also do interactive plandos and really torture people in real time
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total 2019-02-26 14:35
There's no reason not to send some extra metadata over the wire than just item pickups as well
14:35
My thinking was to also send door id on each door transition in SM for example
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:35
That seems useful
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:35
Just confirmed that the tracker works just fine with qusb2snes
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:36
Neat
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total 2019-02-26 14:36
That'd be helpful for ALTTP as well to just send some metadata on each screen transition
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:37
yeah, I think metadata capture is pretty great
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total 2019-02-26 14:37
and just write that to a queue somewhere in SRAM so the client application can pick it up whenever it likes to without disturbing gameplay
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:37
That’s data needed for the item requests anyway
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:37
you can do it that way, or just accept slightly lossy data and capture the room IDs from the web app
14:37
it's a very small amount of data
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total 2019-02-26 14:38
ah yeah, you could probably just passively scan a few bytes of data every second or so
14:38
and pick some important things up
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:38
the usb2snes and emulator lua stuff is shockingly robust
14:38
the autotracker actually scans once every 500ms
14:38
for some things
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total 2019-02-26 14:38
Yeah I wrote an autosplitter for livesplit that scans every frame
14:39
and it works without issue for usb2snes at least
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:39
the only gotcha is that usb2snes has an effective buffer length limit for a single request
14:39
and if you exceed it
14:39
"strange things" occur
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:39
this_is_fine
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:39
at least for reads, it's safe for the game at least
14:40
but it will overwrite other pending data to send
14:40
causing random junk to appear in other requests
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total 2019-02-26 14:40
Another thing that can be useful for verification would be to send code payloads to be executed on the target SNES
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:41
Yes, and that's easy
14:41
We do that in connectorlib constantly for crowd control
14:41
all reads come from the sd2snes shadow ram
14:41
but for actual writes, we send code over to run in the sd2snes command block (edited)
14:41
same for atomic bit flips, etc.
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total 2019-02-26 14:42
how's that dealt with for emulators since they don't have that memory region mapped
14:42
or can you map arbitrary memory with lua?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:42
it's connector specific in connectorlib
14:43
the lua connector just uses the emulator lua's native write functions
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total 2019-02-26 14:43
Ah okay, for my thing I'm doing I'll probably just reserve a bit of SRAM for it
14:43
and have some code run in NMI that checks if a message has arrived and then handle it
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EmoSaru 2019-02-26 14:44
yeah, ROM and SRAM can be written to without such shenanigans
14:44
since they're in the sd2snes address space
14:45
A lot of what connectorlib does is translate normal SNES addresses to sd2snes addresses as appropriate
14:45
I think it's lorom specific right now, but that could change over time
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total 2019-02-26 14:46
you'll have a blast for exhirom 😃
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:46
The PoC for this feels like it could be knocked out pretty quickly
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total 2019-02-26 14:46
especially for the crazy mishmash of data for combo rando
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:46
It’s a brave new world
14:47
Then comes the tedious bit of making it usable
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total 2019-02-26 14:47
indeed, it's something that's reasonably easy to get working, but hard to get to work well
14:47
lots of edge cases to deal with
14:48
like what happens if someone accidently closes the webpage
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:49
They lose the race most likely
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total 2019-02-26 14:49
Well if it's coded well it should just resync and reconnect properly when they reopen the same permalink
14:50
and the worst thing that'll happen is that the game will pause when trying to get an item until the link is back up
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:50
What happens when they click the wrong permalink etc etc
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total 2019-02-26 14:50
It would reject the connection
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:50
Ideally
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total 2019-02-26 14:50
because the session id stored in SNES SRAM doesn't match the server session id's
14:51
or something like that
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:51
Sure, but that’s another thing that needs implementation and passing ofc
14:52
And then someone power cycles the console
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total 2019-02-26 14:52
Yep, that's what I meant with getting it to work well is hard 😃
14:52
so many things to consider
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:53
That’s when fun projects turn into work 😉
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total 2019-02-26 14:53
indeed, that's why most of my projects rarely leave the "mostly works" stage
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Zembar 2019-02-26 14:59
I generally start grumbling when it moves from foo.c sitting in vim and I have to consider splitting the file up and adding it to source control
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total 2019-02-26 14:59
This should be fun though, I haven't touched javascript and webdev in years
14:59
So building this as a webapp will at least force me to learn that again a bit
15:00
The last webpage I built was this: https://arcade.supermetroid.run/ and that's not really a modern marvel of web design 😃
15:00
just some simple leaderboards for the SM Arcade hack
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Zembar 2019-02-26 15:00
Well, it works, so that’s a good sign at least
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-26 15:01
I still am 3rd Normal GWovoYayy
15:02
And I still remember I died by yoloing into a Metroid room GWchinaDJeanneDespair
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total 2019-02-26 15:02
It's kinda funny, I implemented obfuscated encrypted passwords for it to prevent people from entering cheated codes. Turns out that wasn't the way people cheated, they just used emulator and savestates and got a valid code from that 😃
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Zembar 2019-02-26 15:02
Why reverse engineer code you can just run?
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-26 15:02
I did use save states but only to resume sessions! At that time I couldn't really play for so long
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total 2019-02-26 15:03
I still like the code system though, it feels pretty cool to get an oldschool password when you finish
15:04
and it does provide some input validation at least to make sure people enter the correct values into the leaderboards
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-26 15:04
Yeah it was cool
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Zembar 2019-02-26 15:04
No password system is truly great until it has a lewd filter
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-26 15:04
How long ago was it already?
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total 2019-02-26 15:35
ok I even bought the perfect domain name for client/server randomizer now
15:35
randomizer.live
15:36
😃
15:36
well worth $2
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Sigmantium 2019-02-26 21:20
I'll buy it off you for $10
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skipperki1™ 2019-02-26 21:33
$10.01
21:34
Final Offer
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-26 22:13
not as good as samus.link tho
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Sigmantium 2019-02-26 23:21
great now my wife has to put up with me shouting what items i got 😛
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qwertymodo 2019-02-26 23:27
I already snagged snes.link, so HAH
23:28
I wanted retro.link, but holy mother forking shirt balls is it expensive
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Natalie 2019-02-26 23:30
welcome to squatters
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qwertymodo 2019-02-26 23:31
nah, it's something about common words being reserved and sold at a premium
23:31
before they even hit squatters
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Natalie 2019-02-26 23:33
that's... basically squatters, but one level closer to the source
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total 2019-02-27 01:49
The topdomains have gotten a bit out of hand though
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Zembar 2019-02-27 01:49
you got samus.link, but what about link.samus?
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total 2019-02-27 01:51
should register moldorm.ooo
maxyyLove 1
01:51
why is there even an "ooo" top domain
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Zembar 2019-02-27 01:53
INFIBEAM INCORPORATION LIMITED
01:53
according to IANA
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total 2019-02-27 01:54
The biggest downside of everyone using discord and things and not IRC anymore is that you can't register cool domains to use as vanity hostnames anymore
01:55
because noone will see it 😦
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Zembar 2019-02-27 01:56
nobody registered noo.ooo yet btw
01:56
just saying
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Vaevictus 2019-02-28 07:33
what about thundercatsh.ooo
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Simon 2019-02-28 12:38
I don't know if i'm slightly stupid, but I don't have the little robot head in my tracker. I am supposed to use the Official ALTTP Support tracker, and that should work, correct? (Before someone asks, I am running the latest version of both the software and the pack)
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fylion 2019-02-28 12:41
Autotracker support is disabled at this point.
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Simon 2019-02-28 12:42
Ah, I must have missed that. That would explain the issue.
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Natalie 2019-02-28 13:18
Autotracker support for LttPR is disabled (because of a self-consuming community). No other autotrackers have been implemented yet. [edit for readers: Super Adventure Island 2 has partial autotracker support, apparently.] (edited)
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fylion 2019-02-28 13:20
Good clarification
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Natalie 2019-02-28 13:23
Basically, this channel would effectively currently only exist for community leaders to spitball about adding autotracker support. (Like, say, the SMRPG rando could be a good candidate, or anyone who wants to build packages for currently unrandomized games (for speedrun streamers?)) (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-02-28 13:29
That’s not quite true - the pack for Super Adventure Island 2 randomizer currently supports auto-tracking for some things.
13:29
Small community, but it’s there.
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Natalie 2019-02-28 13:30
Oh, neat.
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Simon 2019-02-28 13:31
Thank you for your responses guys. I got so excited when I read about the autotracker that I completely missed the whole drama and that it was already removed. 😃
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Natalie 2019-02-28 13:31
🤷 Well, it's still an exception to the current rule. Largely, wait for communities to do The Thing.
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キノ 2019-02-28 16:08
Yeah SAI2 supports autotracking for most things
16:08
Except coin bags and map locations (which I plan to add tonight or tomorrow) (edited)
16:09
Although if you want to toy with it, be aware bizhawk is buggy and breaks with the SAI2 rando (i don’t think this has to do with the connector)
16:09
So use the snes9x-rr connector
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Natalie 2019-02-28 16:13
🤔
16:13
Is this another case of BizHawk having no idea how games work
16:13
(looking at you OoT fishing game)
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キノ 2019-02-28 16:14
Not sure
16:14
Basically, SAI2 just randomly freezes and glitches out
16:15
This doesn’t occur in other emulators - just bizhawk
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WorksOnMyMachine 2019-03-01 13:10
How did autotracking know what memory was restricted and what wasn't?
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EmoSaru 2019-03-01 13:14
There is a server-managed setup for specifying that data. Any discussion of additional details will result in deletion, warnings, and then bans. (edited)
13:16
As a general statement, that's the policy here for any discussion of information that could be used to circumvent the protections I have in place. While there are certainly attacks that are not feasible for me to guard against at a reasonable cost, there will be no support or discussion of that here.
13:16
Any other questions are welcome.
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total 2019-03-03 12:43
Got client/server randomization working for SM now btw, was a fun weekend project
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EmoSaru 2019-03-03 13:56
Nice! Would love to sync up with you on it at some point.
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total 2019-03-03 14:03
yeah sure, I'll be happy to go through it
14:03
managed to actually make items progressively load in SM as well, so if they're not loaded in time they show a placeholder graphics until they're fully loaded
14:03
works really well
14:03
and looks smooth in-game as well
14:03
testing against a server with ~150ms latency now and haven't had any issues
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EmoSaru 2019-03-03 14:04
Nice!
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Natalie 2019-03-03 14:04
but what does it do in the event you pick up an item and it hasn't loaded the item yet
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total 2019-03-03 14:04
it waits
14:04
until it loads
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Natalie 2019-03-03 14:04
measurable and documentable wait time?
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total 2019-03-03 14:05
it waits forever if needed
14:05
but yes
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Natalie 2019-03-03 14:05
neat
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total 2019-03-03 14:05
you can just count frames that it waits
14:05
and report back to the server
14:06
and it's all just a webpage
14:06
talking to the local websocket
14:06
so that's pretty neat
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Seraphin Eveles 2019-03-06 17:28
tl;dr - You found a way to implement anti-cheating?
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total 2019-03-06 23:14
yeah pretty much that
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Seraphin Eveles 2019-03-07 03:01
Wow. I have to say, that's pretty awesome. The things you come up with. (edited)
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total 2019-03-07 03:21
Right now the focus is on improving QUsb2Snes though with better multiplatform support so more people can use things like autotracking and things
03:21
It builds on OSX right now but there are some USB-serial issues to work out
03:21
Retroarch support is coming along and getting improved as well
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Zembar 2019-03-07 03:30
isn't there something like libusb on OSX?
03:31
because writing something that can do that in libusb is borderline trivial (edited)
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total 2019-03-07 03:45
It's something really strange going on because communication works, it's just that sometimes data gets corrupted in some way
03:46
and I'm not sure how the hell data can be corrupted over a usb-serial link like that
03:46
Could just be some kind of serial port handling bug in the code as well
03:46
That just doesn't show up on windows for some reason
03:47
It's using QT's QSerialPort stuff I think
03:49
apparantly there are similar issues when running it on linux as well
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Zembar 2019-03-07 03:51
feels like libusb would be a more sane choice tbh
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total 2019-03-07 03:52
yeah, I might give it a shot to write a new libusb-based driver and see if that works better
03:53
but it should honestly just work using the serial port interface provided by the OS
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Zembar 2019-03-07 03:53
one would think so
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total 2019-03-07 03:53
it's a regular USB-serial FTDI chip
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Zembar 2019-03-07 03:53
they rarely give me problems
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total 2019-03-07 03:54
gonna write some standalone software just to test the serial port and do writes/reads and checksum it
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Zembar 2019-03-07 03:54
got a couple of ftdi serial cables sitting on my desk as we speak
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total 2019-03-07 03:54
and see if I get problems
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Zembar 2019-03-07 03:55
I'd usually assume it was a bad cable, but it's weird that multiple people are having the issues
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total 2019-03-07 03:55
I used the same cable on windows and it's fine
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total 2019-03-07 04:06
and I've never had any issues with usb-serial on osx earlier
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Zembar 2019-03-07 04:07
strange
04:08
you could wireshark it or something, see if the data is malformed somehow
04:08
or usbmon
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stephen 2019-03-07 07:48
!!!!
07:48
OSX support for anything and everything is appreciated
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total 2019-03-07 11:20
yeah, poor OSX users always gets left behind
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stephen 2019-03-07 11:29
i know there's only like... 5 of us
11:29
that stream retro from mac
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EmoSaru 2019-03-07 12:12
Just to be clear for anybody reading - this has nothing to do with EmoTracker being ported to OSX, which is not a thing that’s planned to happen.
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stephen 2019-03-07 12:49
yeah, i just saw him talk about possibly making QUSB2SNES possible to use on OSX (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-03-07 13:04
Yep, which is definitely a good thing, for a variety of reasons.
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total 2019-03-08 03:29
Yeah we got some good news in store for OSX emulator players as well
03:30
while it won't be that much of a help for emotracker since that's windows only it'll sure help if someone ends up doing a web-based tracker or similar services
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Babalookan 2019-03-08 21:59
How do i get this to work? I may be screwing it up somehow
21:59
or wehre can i find info to get this to work
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JRJathome 2019-03-08 22:02
If you're trying to use autotracker with the alttp pack, I'm sorry to say it's been disabled for the time being.
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Babalookan 2019-03-08 22:03
ahh ok
22:03
does voice trracking work?
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キノ 2019-03-08 22:03
afaik the only autotracker right now is my sai2 one
22:03
more than happy to step you through getting that to work
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Babalookan 2019-03-08 22:04
sure should we this conversation elsewhere? or can we talk abotu it here
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JRJathome 2019-03-08 22:04
Here is fine
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Babalookan 2019-03-08 22:04
ok
22:05
what do i do?
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JRJathome 2019-03-08 22:06
There's a setup guide pinned in this channel.
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Babalookan 2019-03-08 22:07
thanks i always for get to lok at pins
22:09
What is that, that i'm down loading? is it another emulator that it works with or no?
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キノ 2019-03-08 22:10
oh
22:10
for sai2?
22:10
for that you gotta use the snes9x connector
22:10
that'll be in the emotracker directory
22:11
basically, load up snes9x-rr, then open the lua window (found in the file menu), then browse for the snes9x-rr connector.lua file (found alongside the snes9x-rr zip file)
22:11
then right click the robot in emotracker and select 'lua'
22:11
should just work after that
22:11
oh wait - do that robot thing first, before you run the lua code in snes9x-rr
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Babalookan 2019-03-08 22:12
ok i'll do that
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キノ 2019-03-08 22:22
if you have any questions along the way, just ask (edited)
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Babalookan 2019-03-08 22:22
can i DM you?
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キノ 2019-03-08 22:22
nah i don't accept DMs
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Babalookan 2019-03-08 22:24
i'm having a hard time find where i need to go
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キノ 2019-03-08 22:24
for which step?
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Babalookan 2019-03-08 22:24
where is the emo tracker directory
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キノ 2019-03-08 22:25
C:\Program Files (x86)\EmoTracker\Connectors
22:25
typically
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Babalookan 2019-03-08 22:25
thanks
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キノ 2019-03-08 22:25
so you want to run snes9x.exe in C:\Program Files (x86)\EmoTracker\Connectors\snes9x\snes9x-rr
22:26
enable the robot in the sai2 tracker
22:26
then load connector.lua in C:\Program Files (x86)\EmoTracker\Connectors\snes9x
22:26
(in snes9x)
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Babalookan 2019-03-08 22:28
i can';t find where to enable the sai2 tracker
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キノ 2019-03-08 22:28
???
22:28
you need to download it in emotracker
22:29
go click the little cloud in emotracker and search for 'super adventure island' and it should show up
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Babalookan 2019-03-08 22:29
i want the tracekr for ALTTP
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キノ 2019-03-08 22:31
well, that doesn't exist
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Babalookan 2019-03-08 22:31
ok well i thank you for your time sorry for the misunderstanding.
22:32
so voice nor auto tracking works for ALTTP
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JRJathome 2019-03-08 22:32
voice works. auto tracking doesn't.
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Babalookan 2019-03-08 22:32
ok
22:32
to get voice to work i need to us the bizhawk emulator?
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キノ 2019-03-08 22:32
no
22:32
you just use it
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Babalookan 2019-03-08 22:33
I have it active and it turns yellow when i talk but how do you get it to work?
22:33
what are the commands?
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JRJathome 2019-03-08 22:34
There's a video pinned in #voice-tracking-support (edited)
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Babalookan 2019-03-08 22:34
ok thank you
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JRJathome 2019-03-08 22:34
More details are in #faq
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Babalookan 2019-03-08 22:35
I appreciate all your help guys I'm i guess i'm kind of a morn sometimes
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-03-19 20:04
Yay
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Seraphin Eveles 2019-03-19 20:13
Out of curiosity, any plans to make autotracking function with SMxLttP? Though I know @total might have something to say in that regard. I'm just curious, as it's my game of choice.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-19 20:15
That's up to that community and the folks who develop packs for the game. SMxLTTP is much more complicated to autotrack because of the way the switch between the games occurs. If/when they want to pursue it, I'll help with fixing any necessary issues on my end where I can.
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Seraphin Eveles 2019-03-19 20:15
Cool. I remember total talking about it a bit awhile back, but I never found out if a decision was reached on it.
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Natalie 2019-03-19 20:23
The decision was "yes and I'm going to write my own autotrackers in the meantime because lol"
20:23
roughly
20:23
paraphrasing
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SomeDude 2019-03-19 20:26
Hi there. I'm having trouble getting the autotracker to connect to my sd2snes. As far as I can tell, I installed Crowd Control and Emotracker correctly. The sd2snes service was running before I even clicked to install it, which I assume means it read my usb port. It's running, which is all I need for the autotracker to work, right?
20:27
I'm trying to autotrack ALTTP, if that matters.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-19 20:27
Did you apply the USB firmware to your SD2SNES?
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SomeDude 2019-03-19 20:28
I thought so, but I can check again.
20:29
Unless the usb firmware is separate from the overall firmware I installed, in which case my googling isn't finding it.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-19 20:30
SD card based multi-purpose cartridge for the SNES - RedGuyyyy/sd2snes
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SomeDude 2019-03-19 20:30
Cool, thank you. I'll see if that helps. (edited)
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SomeDude 2019-03-19 20:42
I have the usb firmware set up, but it might be that the cable I'm using doesn't support data transfer. So once I have one that does, I should be good to go. Thanks for the help.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-19 20:45
No problem, keep us posted when you get the correct cable.
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Noface 2019-03-19 21:10
So I got the autotracker working on my SNES Mini, here's how I did it: step 1: I downloaded qSD2SNES, which emulate your snes mini as a SD2SNES. Here's the link https://github.com/Skarsnik/QUsb2snes . There is complete instructions in the link. Go to releases in the github page to download the latest version of the .7z file. step 2: You need the latest version of Hakchi2 CE (link in the Github above) in the Qusb2snes folder, drag the serverstuff.hmod file and drop it in Hakchi2 CE, install serverstuff step 3: open qSD2SNES. The app will be reduced in your taskbar. Step 4: right click on the app, go to Devices and select "enable SNES Classic support (experimental)" Step 5: In emotracker, right click on the robot head, go to SNES and select SD2SNES Step6: you're done (edited)
A Qt based webserver for usb2snes. Contribute to Skarsnik/QUsb2snes development by creating an account on GitHub.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-19 21:12
Pinned a message.
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Seraphin Eveles 2019-03-19 21:12
@Natalie haha, ya, that sounds like total.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-19 21:12
Thanks @Noface - it's in the pins now.
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Noface 2019-03-19 21:12
good 😄 hope it can help someone ^^
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Seraphin Eveles 2019-03-19 21:12
Wow, that's actually really cool.
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Noface 2019-03-19 21:13
pretty sure it would work for crowd control too
21:13
but I would have to test it out
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EmoSaru 2019-03-19 21:14
CC is much more complicated, because it writes data back too.
21:14
Worth testing, but I'm less optimistic.
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Noface 2019-03-19 21:14
I have the app on my pc, let me test it out
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EmoSaru 2019-03-19 21:16
Be aware that some effects may appear to work, but there are some effects that leverage atomic bit operations (read/modify/write) that require specific support (they're not natively supported by the SD2SNES protocol).
21:19
I actually expect writes to fail entirely though, because connectorlib uses the SD2SNES command block to run custom SNES ASM on the console, as that's the only way to write to actual system memory, as opposed to the SD2SNES' shadow copy.
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Noface 2019-03-19 21:19
nope, doesn't work for CC, at least it works for autotracking ^^
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EmoSaru 2019-03-19 21:20
Yeah, reading memory is pretty straightforward, and I'm happy to hear that they've got it going with compatible address translation. (edited)
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Noface 2019-03-19 21:21
it's huge for the argument that not everybody can use the autotracker, it makes it compatible on another platform
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Spleebie 2019-03-19 21:21
I've got an SNES Classic on the way to my house right now, perfect timing 😄
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EmoSaru 2019-03-19 21:22
@Noface Definitely.
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Spleebie 2019-03-19 22:24
@Noface looks like QUsb2snes requires the Qt framework (startup errors for missing Qt5Gui.dll, Qt5WebSockets.dll, etc) but the instructions on the github don't mention having to install dependencies. Is Qt something you already had set up? I found the installer but it looks .....huge.
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Lechtansi 2019-03-19 22:25
i just unzipped qusb2snes into its own directory and ran the .exe, it was really easy
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Noface 2019-03-19 22:26
did you get your qsd2snes from the release page?
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Spleebie 2019-03-19 22:26
aha
22:26
download the .7z, not the .exe
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Noface 2019-03-19 22:26
yup haha
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Spleebie 2019-03-19 22:27
and they included the dlls, excellent
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Noface 2019-03-19 22:27
i'll add that to my little tutorial xD
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Spleebie 2019-03-19 22:28
thanks
22:28
it's apparent that I'm tired and should go to bed instead of doing this crap lol
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Noface 2019-03-19 22:28
what is sleep? kelpThink
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Spleebie 2019-03-19 22:29
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Seraphin Eveles 2019-03-19 23:38
It's when you fall unconscious, hallucinate vividly for several hours, then forget about the whole thing.
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-19 23:58
it's back? 😮
23:58
sweet mother of...
23:58
why do i need sleep so bads ;_;
23:59
please no disappear again when i wake up tomorrow auto tracker linkusCry
😂 2
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 00:24
does it still have map tracking?
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 00:27
Yes. There is a settings Lua file you can override if you wish/need to selectively disable item or location tracking. (edited)
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 00:36
haha i wanna keep it
00:36
besides im on console
00:36
sd2snes
00:37
how do i play on emulator btw? where's the lua and how to run it
00:38
in case i ever dont feel like setting up my snes
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 00:41
The Lua is in the installation directory, under Connectors.
00:41
The details of how to run it is specific to your emulator, but in the case of bizhawk, the crowd control site has some helpful directions, as do the pins here. (edited)
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 00:45
alright, thanks emo
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-03-20 08:05
I’m looking forward to actually using this now
08:05
I didn’t get to before
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TidusZecht 2019-03-20 08:51
i just got a SD2SNES and then this auto-tracker gets added to the emo tracker and i've been trying to get it working but i'm not having any luck
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stephen 2019-03-20 08:55
did you get the normal SD2SNES or the pro?
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TidusZecht 2019-03-20 08:56
normal
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stephen 2019-03-20 08:57
SD card based multi-purpose cartridge for the SNES - RedGuyyyy/sd2snes
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TidusZecht 2019-03-20 09:01
how do i install the win7 driver?
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stephen 2019-03-20 09:02
https://crowdcontrol.live/software/win7_driver.zip this driver should work. When you plug your SD2SNES into your computer, you should be prompted to install a driver, and you can use the one in that ZIP file. Otherwise, find the device in Device Manager and update the driver to use the file in that ZIP.
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TidusZecht 2019-03-20 09:06
it didn't prompt me to install a driver and it's not showing up on my device manager
09:08
if it matters, i plugged the usb from the sd2snes through a hub. will it have to be plugged directly to the computer?
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little_red 2019-03-20 09:09
the hub might be the issue
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TidusZecht 2019-03-20 09:13
still didn't ding and still not on my device manager
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stephen 2019-03-20 09:15
Is your SNES on?
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TidusZecht 2019-03-20 09:17
FailFish
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stephen 2019-03-20 09:17
that do it?
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TidusZecht 2019-03-20 09:18
no ding, not on device manager
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stephen 2019-03-20 09:18
Try a different USB cable and/or port.
09:19
If your SNES is on, and it doesn't show in device manager, you'll need someone local to check it out and make sure you don't have an issue with your PC.
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TidusZecht 2019-03-20 09:23
just had another brain fart. i don't really even know where to look in the device manager for this
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Usurper Grimm 2019-03-20 09:24
Is there a guide to auto tracker setup for sd2snes? All I see in the pinned messages is SNES classic and bizhawk
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TidusZecht 2019-03-20 09:25
does the firmware HAVE to be the 1.9? mine is 1.10.1 according to my menu on the sd2snes
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Usurper Grimm 2019-03-20 09:25
Is all I need to do is just connect it via USB cable and use the usb2snes firmware? (edited)
09:28
And obviously turn on auto tracker function in the application
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stephen 2019-03-20 09:28
I installed the driver, downloaded the latest ALTTP randomizer pack, clicked the robot on the bottom right and set autotracking to SD2SNES
09:28
ta da
09:30
oh, right, step0, make sure you have the right firmware on the SD2SNES
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TidusZecht 2019-03-20 09:34
so i DO need that 1.9 version?
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stephen 2019-03-20 09:34
yes.
09:34
the base firmware doesn't include support for USB
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TidusZecht 2019-03-20 09:35
how do i replace the firmware i have with that 1.9 you link'd?
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stephen 2019-03-20 09:36
what I can tell you is the release by redguy is for 1.9, and the directions say "apply over 1.9"
09:36
so you get the 1.9 firmware as normal, and then replace the "fpga_base.bit" and "firmware.img" files from the normal 1.9 firmware with the files provided in the link above.
09:38
a)back up sd2snes/saves on your SD card. b) delete the sd2snes folder c) https://sd2snes.de/files/sd2snes_firmware_v1.9.0.zip unzip that to the sd2snes folder on your SD card d) restore your saves to sd2snes/saves e) get https://github.com/RedGuyyyy/sd2snes/releases/download/usb2snes_v9/usb2snes_v9.zip f) take the two files from the sd2snes folder in that zip file and put them in the sd2snes folder on your sdcard. it will warn you that you are replacing existing files, this is expected
09:41
the 1.10 firmware is mainly for sd2snespro support.
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TidusZecht 2019-03-20 09:44
IT DING'D
09:45
okay, so it's on my device manager now
09:47
okay, so i install the win7 driver from the driver folder into the sd2snes in the device manger right?
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stephen 2019-03-20 09:47
correct.
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TidusZecht 2019-03-20 09:48
okay, that's installing
09:48
also, that step by step thing of yours should be pinned. followed that and fixed the issue
09:51
okay, and that's it, the tracker should work now?
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stephen 2019-03-20 09:51
click robot in bottom right of emo tracker
09:51
set autotracking to SD2SNES
09:51
then load up a rom, start in link's house, open a chest. should autotrack
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TidusZecht 2019-03-20 09:54
lol it works 😄
09:54
had to restart emotracker because it was running and set up wrong at first
09:54
thanks a lot screevo 😃
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stephen 2019-03-20 09:54
yw
10:00
HOW TO UPDATE YOUR SD2SNES TO SUPPORT AUTO-TRACKER a) Back up your saved games on your SD2SNES (located in the sd2snes/saves folder on the SD card.) b) Delete the SD2SNES folder off of your SD card c) https://sd2snes.de/files/sd2snes_firmware_v1.9.0.zip - Download and unzip the 1.9.0 SD2SNES firmware to your SD card d) Restore your saved games to the sd2snes/saves folder on your SD card. e) https://github.com/RedGuyyyy/sd2snes/releases/download/usb2snes_v9/usb2snes_v9.zip - Download and Extract the USB support patch f) Take the two files from the sd2snes folder in that USB support patch zip file and put them in the sd2snes folder on your SD card. It will warn you that you are replacing existing files, this is expected. g) Plug in your SD2SNES via a microUSB cable. h) If you have Windows 7 - Look for the SD2SNES in Device Manager. Update the driver to use the file from the win7_driver folder in the USB Support patch ZIP file. i) Click the robot in the bottom right of your EmoTracker window and set it to SD2SNES.
👍 4
10:00
there's a cleaner message if someone wants to pin it.
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JRJathome 2019-03-20 10:17
Pinned a message.
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codemann8 2019-03-20 11:34
I'm having a little difficulty getting the auto tracking to work. I've installed the new version, updated the package, cleared my overrides, restarted. I get the robot, I set it to Lua, but when I click Start, it doesn't do anything, doesn't change colors. On my snes9x-rr 1.54, I load connector.lua from the emo install dir, still nothing, any ideas? When I change it to SD2SNES the robot turns yellow, but I'm not using sd2snes, I change it back to Lua, and the robot turns white again. @ me when you reply plz (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 12:01
@codemann8 Can you please include any Lua script output you got in snes9x-rr?
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codemann8 2019-03-20 12:02
It just says 'script returned but is still running registered functions'
12:03
'The connection was established' shows up on the emulator display when I restart the script (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 12:04
Okay, and what does your tracker window look like? Is the robot cyan?
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codemann8 2019-03-20 12:04
Robot is white
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 12:05
When you right click, is start clickable, or is it grayed out (with stop being clickable)
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codemann8 2019-03-20 12:05
Start is clickable, I click it and nothing happens
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 12:06
Do you by any chance have another instance of tracker still running, or perhaps the Crowd Control app?
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codemann8 2019-03-20 12:07
Oh, I'm dumb @EmoSaru , I had a program open that I'm coding that was interfering
12:07
It is cyan now, thank you (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 12:07
Glad to hear.
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-03-20 13:23
how does the autotracker know how long the seed should take?
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fylion 2019-03-20 13:24
I don't think it does?
13:24
Why do you ask that?
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-03-20 13:24
cause at the start of the file uncle says this seed is sub 2 hour guarenteed
13:24
maybe thats just a general message?
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JRJathome 2019-03-20 13:25
That has nothing to do with autotracker.
13:25
That's just a generic message.
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fylion 2019-03-20 13:25
That's just a joke
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-03-20 13:25
rip me
13:26
lol
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stephen 2019-03-20 13:26
next you're gonna ask how the autotracker knows you're out of weetabix
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-03-20 13:26
Screevo: 👍 (You must construct additional weetabix.) (edited)
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fylion 2019-03-20 13:34
I've been out of Weetabix for years.
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 13:40
I have it set up to stream later
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Lechtansi 2019-03-20 13:48
hey @EmoSaru i have a bug report. I've noticed that sometimes when i have a "visible" location (like the maze game), and i don't need the item there, the auto tracker doesn't mark it off (which makes sense since i technically didn't get it). However, if i manually mark it off, it will come back later. I noticed this with the maze game and the lost woods mushroom and thieves hideout
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 13:49
There is a system in place to prevent this, but it currently requires that you clear the unwanted location by right-clicking the square on the map. (edited)
13:49
A future update will make it work when manually clearing the chests within the location.
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Lechtansi 2019-03-20 14:18
thats what i was doing, i wasn't clearing the chests in the location i was right clicking the square on the map
14:19
by the way, i just finished my first seed with the auto tracker and i'm really enjoying it. thanks a lot!
14:19
also, is there a way to bring back the post-game score box? I accidentally clicked right when it popped up
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 14:22
Refresh the pack and start the autotracker again
14:22
That said, I'm looking into a notification history view
14:23
I will look into what's happening with the clear tracking not working properly tonight when I'm not at work.
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Lechtansi 2019-03-20 14:25
great. thanks for all the tech support while your at work!
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P-Train 2019-03-20 15:18
I was running the auto tracker on Bizhawk. All of a sudden, I got "Failed to load Block B" message on screen. After that, the tracker stopped working
15:18
This error message was also on the Lua Console. I toggled the script on/off. I got the "The connection was established" message... but the auto tracker was no longer working
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Squall 2019-03-20 15:31
Hi, i am having a little question, Autotracker doesn't check Donjon chest and Pendant/crystal, i have to check it myself on dungeon, is that normal at the moment? (On Snes9X Emulator)
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 15:32
hmm
15:32
the keys dont seem to be autotracking for some reason
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JRJathome 2019-03-20 15:34
Both of those are intended.
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 15:36
ugh why
15:36
that's so annoying
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Squall 2019-03-20 15:40
K just asking if this were like "normal" state :p got my answer thanks
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JRJathome 2019-03-20 15:41
So the reason why the tracker doesn't mark which dungeons are pendants or crystals is because it can't detect when you look at your map, and giving that information automatically would be unfair to those not using autotracker. Not to mention, it'd be completely broken in keysanity.
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 15:42
fair on that one but keys?
15:43
besides if you're in a race allowing auto tracking and arent using it you're willingly putting yourself at a disadvantage
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JRJathome 2019-03-20 15:43
I'm sure there was a technical reason, but I can't remember what exactly. Likely something to do with keysanity vs non-keysanity packs. (edited)
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fylion 2019-03-20 15:44
I believe it's got something to do with where/how keys are stored in memory; reading that data is more like inspecting the rom than checking the inventory.
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 15:46
i mean it's not like it doesnt show it at the bottom of your inventory anyway though
15:46
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
15:46
whats the big deal
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stephen 2019-03-20 15:46
just because it is on that screen
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JRJathome 2019-03-20 15:46
Oh, I found it. Small keys aren't tracked because it can't tell the difference between chest keys and pot keys.
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stephen 2019-03-20 15:46
doesn't mean it is in a memory bank that has been safe for trackers to inspect
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fylion 2019-03-20 15:46
^
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 15:46
whyyy is that such a big deal anyway lol
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stephen 2019-03-20 15:47
specific memory banks have specific data that has been deemed "ok for autotracking"
15:47
if the key data is elsewhere, then no matter what, it won't be autotracked.
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 15:48
again though i would rather like to know, whats the big deal with it reading memory of any sort
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stephen 2019-03-20 15:48
just open the spoiler log at that point
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JRJathome 2019-03-20 15:48
Because you could build a tracker that tells you where everything is from the start.
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stephen 2019-03-20 15:49
the autotracker doesn't know what is in a given chest. Just what item you got by opening a chest.
15:49
until then, anything could be in the box, even a boat.
15:49
or a dead cat
15:49
or a live cat
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JRJathome 2019-03-20 15:49
Let's Make A Deal
15:50
But yeah, I'm pretty sure keys from pots and enemies is one of the main reasons since the autotracker can't tell the difference when you pick it up.
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 15:52
one of the things i always wished keysanity included was not changing your key count in the menu as you picked up pot keys/used keys
15:52
suppose thats probs why not
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Natalie 2019-03-20 15:53
you'd have to make a patch to write "I have X keys from chests for Y dungeon" to SRAM and mirror it to RAM
15:53
which they may do now that they've flip-flopped on autotracking
15:53
Problem is you'll need to delay updating it until the menu is opened
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 15:54
uh also why did it not mark when i cleared hyrule castle?
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Natalie 2019-03-20 15:54
There are edge cases everywhere that just need to be accounted for, on one side or the other (edited)
15:54
Hyrule Castle is also a dungeon
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 15:54
it didnt mark any chests though
15:55
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Natalie 2019-03-20 15:55
That's because it's a dungeon
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stephen 2019-03-20 15:55
hyrule castle is TWO dungeons.
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Natalie 2019-03-20 15:55
Tower is functionally (to the end user) a separate dungeon
15:55
But that's semantics
15:56
And ass programming
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 15:56
so it doesnt mark anything in dungeons either
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stephen 2019-03-20 15:57
to be honest, i'm not sure i understand your question
15:58
specifically: what did you do, and what result did you expect from the tracker
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 15:58
i opened all chests in hyrule castle and expected it to mark them
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JRJathome 2019-03-20 15:58
The dungeon issue is because the non-keysanity packs don't include dungeon items in the item counts.
15:59
If autotracking was enabled, Emo would have to change that variant to have all chests like the keysanity pack.
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 15:59
why not just separate them
16:00
keysanity and non keysanity that is
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Natalie 2019-03-20 16:00
They ARE separate.
16:01
They're separate item placement rulesets and separate tracker packagesvariants. (edited)
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 16:01
then why does one affect the other at all?
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Natalie 2019-03-20 16:01
Because the autotracker only knows that you opened a chest
16:01
It isn't going to care that you opened a chest that contained a map or a dungeon key
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stephen 2019-03-20 16:02
i think it's easy to look at the magic of autotracker, and expect more magic, when more magic exceeds the limitations what is possible by just looking at the RAM.
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Natalie 2019-03-20 16:02
There is not yet support for conditionally marking a location based on what kind of item you found
16:04
It knows that you opened a chest (and where that chest is), and it knows what your inventory is at any given moment.
16:04
It does not combine the two.
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 16:07
also for the record i dont know what the heck he used but i remember a former friend of mine plugged a seed into something and it showed him where literally everything was so something must exist that shouldnt 😂
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stephen 2019-03-20 16:08
the difference is
16:09
of COURSE one could take a rom, inspect it, and get the spoilers out of it.
16:09
it's a question of ethics
16:09
when autotracking, you have to draw a line between fair and unfair
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Natalie 2019-03-20 16:09
Did you happen to take note of who he was so he could be banned from all future races and tournaments?
16:09
Because that's definitely cheating.
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 16:09
i mean personally id draw the line at telling you things you shouldnt know yet
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stephen 2019-03-20 16:09
and the line, at least as far as autotracker here goes, has been drawn judiciously and conservatively.
16:10
and it was drawn around 3 specific memory banks
16:10
anything you cannot infer specifically from reading those three memory banks
16:10
is out of bounds.
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fylion 2019-03-20 16:12
Can someone else do something else that reads more than those banks? Yes. Is someone doing it these days? Possibly. Is this out of the scope/control of Emo's autotracker? Yes.
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codemann8 2019-03-20 16:32
I'm repeatedly getting "failed to load block" messages like Ptrain mentioned above. From that point, the autotracker no longer works. I have to Stop and then Start it again in order to get it working again. The problem is, is that this happens every 10 minutes or so, so the time I'm saving during my streams are undone by having to constantly restart the robot. Hope this gets fixed soon. Also, I should reaffirm, this is great work you're doing! (edited)
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stephen 2019-03-20 18:47
Is the autotracker intended to track dungeon chests in the normal pack?
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ChozoHero24 2019-03-20 18:53
question... im trying to set up autotracker to track from snes9x, but i think i doing so wrong. what should i use; lua or sd2snes? (not exactly done something like this before lol)
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codemann8 2019-03-20 18:53
Lua
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stephen 2019-03-20 18:53
and you need to use SNES9X-rr
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ChozoHero24 2019-03-20 18:53
snes9x-rr?
18:54
is that a newer version of snes9x?
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stephen 2019-03-20 18:54
a branch of snex9x that allows lua scripting
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ChozoHero24 2019-03-20 18:59
ok maybe im jus being tech dumb tonight... cause i typed in snes9x-rr into google and keep finding normal snes9x
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stephen 2019-03-20 19:01
Automatically exported from code.google.com/p/snes9x-rr - TASVideos/snes9x-rr
19:01
looks like that requires building though
19:02
idk where to find it prebuilt, someone sent it to me long ago
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ChozoHero24 2019-03-20 19:03
ty
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 19:18
re: small keys - they're intentionally not tracked because it would be deeply misleading
19:19
There is no way to differentiate between small keys from chests and small keys from pots/enemies without inspecting the item table (edited)
19:19
Which is cheating
19:19
Ergo, they are not tracked.
19:20
@P-Train Not sure what would be causing that block read error. I will ask the connector lib folks. That said, you may have luck with stopping/starting the autotracker, and then restarting the lua.
19:23
I could clear dungeon chests, but it would only make sense in keysanity.
19:23
As dungeons are already impossible to track accurately without cheating, I made the decision to more or less not track them at all. The big keys are tracked because they're safe and whatevs.
19:23
I thought about turning those off too.
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-03-20 19:24
Screevo mentioned in the Z3R server that it may be a little wonky when coming back from a S&Q. That may have been related to my disconnects I was having. I’ll have to try that again, paying attention to those events.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 19:25
I have observed item/location flashing when returning from a S+Q, but not disconnects related to that
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-03-20 19:25
Gotcha.
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Dodragon567 2019-03-20 19:25
Sorry to bother y'all but where is a good tutorial to set up the autotracker?
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stephen 2019-03-20 19:25
i had a straight disconnect earlier, but robot was happy
19:25
when i did stop/start, it caught up
19:26
it also wasn't tracking in caves for a time.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 19:26
Be advised that certain items in caves, especially free-standing and NPC items, will not track until you exit.
19:27
This is due to buffering that the game itself does.
19:27
I have not seen that disconnect issue in my testing, but will look into it. I may lower the default update rate to see if that improves stability.
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-03-20 19:28
It’ll be a couple days before I can dedicate a decent amount of time to it.
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stephen 2019-03-20 19:29
the one i specifically noticed was paradox cave
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 19:29
Were other cave locations updating while that one was frozen?
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stephen 2019-03-20 19:30
i don't believe anything on the death mountain trip cleared, but i'm happy to review my VOD
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 19:30
If you wouldn't mind. It will help me to narrow down the most likely cause.
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stephen 2019-03-20 19:31
when i picked up ice rod on hylia island
19:31
and it didn't update
19:31
that's when i did stop/start
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 19:32
Okay. The most likely culprit is something hanging inside of connectorlib.
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 19:32
where is the lua again?
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 19:32
In the install directory.
19:32
There are literally directions in the pinned messages.
19:33
Which, in fact, are pinned because they're useful.
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stephen 2019-03-20 19:33
oh my vod doesn't include map tracking, but it does show getting items and having it not update. i'm checking because i narrated as i was doing things.
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 19:34
thanks
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stephen 2019-03-20 19:34
no, other locations were not working.
19:34
i left paradox, went to ether tablet, got mirror
19:34
neither the paradox bottle or flippers or the ether mirror updated.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 19:34
Okay. That's a total connector hang then.
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stephen 2019-03-20 19:35
any logs or debugs i can provide?
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 19:35
Nope
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ChozoHero24 2019-03-20 19:37
blue bot icon mean connected?
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stephen 2019-03-20 19:38
for autotracker?
19:38
green is happy
19:38
well, maybe it's different for lua?
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ChozoHero24 2019-03-20 19:38
im partial red-green blind so it may be green
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stephen 2019-03-20 19:38
easiest way to test is just start a new game and open the chest in links house
19:39
i think green is happy and yellow is sad
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ChozoHero24 2019-03-20 19:39
got it 😄
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 19:43
I will add overridable color entries for the status indicators so that color blind users can change them. Thanks for bringing that up!
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ChozoHero24 2019-03-20 19:43
no prob 😃
19:44
and ty guys for helping me set it up 😃
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codemann8 2019-03-20 19:47
What does cyan mean? Because it seems to always be cyan, but it works. Until it crashes after the "failed to load block" message.
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stephen 2019-03-20 19:48
someone had that earlier
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codemann8 2019-03-20 19:48
The error happens every 10 or 20 minutes
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ChozoHero24 2019-03-20 19:49
i mean some bugs are to be expected since its still new, right?
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codemann8 2019-03-20 19:50
No doubt, but I was really wondering why the cyan color? Ik when auto tracking was active weeks ago, I was getting green. Just wondering what the different statuses are and what they mean. (edited)
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Doctor Claw 2019-03-20 19:58
So I was using the auto tracker today and wanted to say I'm very excited it's back. I was using it and I ended up sequence breaking ip and after that it stopped tracking.
19:59
Not sure if that's a known issue or if something not known. If you need more details I can provide them. I stopped the auto tracking then started it up again and it worked fine.
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ChozoHero24 2019-03-20 20:12
so "error couldnt unpack block" popped up a few times
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 20:13
@Doctor Claw That's not expected. Also, any time people are reporting an error, I would deeply appreciate it if you include the details on what emulator you're using, or if you're using the SD2SNES connector, your hardware configuration and settings. (edited)
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ChozoHero24 2019-03-20 20:13
snes9x-rr
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Doctor Claw 2019-03-20 20:13
Bsnes on bizhawk
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 20:14
For emulator users through the lua, any lua script errors that appear in the relevant place in your emulator would also be very helpful.
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Doctor Claw 2019-03-20 20:14
I was streaming so I can provide what I was doing in game
20:14
I didn't pay attention to the bottom left at the time though
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ChozoHero24 2019-03-20 20:15
relevant place???
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 20:16
Every emulator has something in the place where scripts are managed that shows script output/errors.
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ChozoHero24 2019-03-20 20:16
oh
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Natalie 2019-03-20 20:16
Log files, usually. Sometimes a console with a live view
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 20:16
Sometimes both
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ChozoHero24 2019-03-20 20:17
um... weird thing... errors didnt pop up in the output thingy, but it popped up in the emulator window... so im not sure
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Natalie 2019-03-20 20:17
There's a non-zero chance that's logged to a file, then.
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ChozoHero24 2019-03-20 20:18
i even looked at the output log window and wasnt showing, so im not sure
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 20:21
@Lechtansi I just verified that the functionality I described, where right clicking a square on the map to clear a location remains respected, is functioning properly. Are you sure you didn't refresh the tracker, resetting the state?
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Doctor Claw 2019-03-20 20:22
I will look at the scripts console when I get back to my computer
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codemann8 2019-03-20 20:28
@EmoSaru I'm curious, are you using the KatDevsGames ConnectorLib? Or something that's built somewhere else?
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 20:29
I am using that library, yes. Technically a slightly more recent version than what is published on github, but I am working on resolving that with the CC team.
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codemann8 2019-03-20 20:32
Unfortunately, I'm using that library and reading doesn't appear to work, but writing does, I may have to tap your shoulder if I can't figure it out after a bit of trial and error.
20:33
I assume by CC you are referring to Crowd Control
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 20:33
That is correct.
20:33
Just FYI, I'm not here to provide detailed support for ConnectorLib development though. (edited)
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codemann8 2019-03-20 20:34
Understood, it'd be more to ask you how you have your reading working
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 20:35
I have my reading working by calling
connector.Read(StartAddress, WriteBuffer)
20:35
If you're having issues beyond that, I would call that detailed support for connectorlib development.
20:36
That's literally my code, btw.
20:36
I'm not being facetious.
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codemann8 2019-03-20 20:36
Yeah, I'm just running the demo out of the box from the GitHub
20:37
Oh...I posted an issue on that github
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 20:37
Getting into what you're building/trying to run is already beyond the scope of what I'd like to have in this channel,
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codemann8 2019-03-20 20:38
Fair enough, where should I move this topic to?
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 20:38
There is no place in this Discord where it's appropriate. I recommend talking to the developer(s) of connectorlib. (edited)
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codemann8 2019-03-20 20:39
My apologies, I thought you said that connectorLib was your code
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 20:40
I contributed the first few revisions of the SD2SNES connector implementation. The rest of the package is all others at this point. (edited)
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Doctor Claw 2019-03-20 20:49
@EmoSaru So if I reset the connection for the lua script when it errored out would that have erased the log?
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 20:52
If you restarted the script, then yes, probably
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Doctor Claw 2019-03-20 20:52
Yeah I did sadly
20:52
Ok not sure I can provide much else then sorry
20:52
I will make sure in the future I don't restart it and get the details for you instead
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 20:52
👍
20:54
FYI, to anybody experiencing the "Failed to parse block" issues on emulators, I'm talking with the right people about it and I think we have a plan for moving forward. It will be a few days though. In the meantime, restarting the autotracker will likely fix you, and restarting both the autotracker and the lua will almost certainly fix you.
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Doctor Claw 2019-03-20 20:54
Yeah I got that error as well earlier
20:54
restarted and everything was great
20:54
Thanks again for everything you do
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codemann8 2019-03-20 21:04
Ty Emo!
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 21:40
tried running autotracker with bizhawk and got this "NLua.Exceptions.LuaScriptException: error loading module 'socket.core' from file '.\socket.dll': dynamic libraries not enabled; check your Lua installation"
21:40
what is that
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 21:42
You did not follow the directions in the pinned message, and are using the wrong Lua interpreter in bizhawk.
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 21:42
huh but i thought i followed them exactly
21:42
ill try again
21:44
whatcha mean wrong lua interpreter
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Tekky 2019-03-20 21:45
Change your Lua core in Config > Customize > Advanced from NLua to LuaCore.
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 21:46
i... did
21:46
or whatever it said in the instructions
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Tekky 2019-03-20 21:47
Did you restart your emu
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 21:48
yea
21:51
well this time it worked doing the exact same thing...,
21:51
what gives bizhawk
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Tekky 2019-03-20 21:51
Did you load it after restarting your emu?
21:51
Because you need to do that for the change to take place. (edited)
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 21:51
yes
21:52
i followed all the instructions as they were in the pin the first time and the second time
21:52
but only the second time worked
21:52
whatevs it's working now XD
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Tekky 2019-03-20 21:54
skatShrug
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-20 21:55
thanks for the help sakuLove
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Tekky 2019-03-20 21:58
np~
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Lechtansi 2019-03-20 22:02
@EmoSaru ill keep an eye on it and let you know if it pops up again. the only additional information i have is that i had previously saved and loaded the state because i was diagnosing connection issues with sd2snes and my snes mini
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EmoSaru 2019-03-20 22:12
I would not be surprised if that data does not currently save/load. I will look into it.
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-03-21 01:05
kinda dumb, but I tried to figure out what was wrong with my autotracker icon turning back to white when... it was totally fine, it was cyan could we get another kind of visual cue? lol
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EmoSaru 2019-03-21 01:06
I’m adding color override support to the existing system for the status colors, which will allow colorblind individuals to change them to whatever works for them.
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Tekky 2019-03-21 01:07
I thought that was a thing already?
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EmoSaru 2019-03-21 01:07
It is for location accessibility colors. I need to add the system status colors to it.
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-03-21 01:07
colourblind girl says GWovoYayy also, it may be cyan but in fact still doesn't work ; where can I find the how-to for snes9x? isn't pinned neither in faq
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EmoSaru 2019-03-21 01:08
It’s basically the same as bizhawk, just with less steps. You need to use snes9x-rr, and you load the appropriate connector script. That’s it.
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Tekky 2019-03-21 01:10
What about ZSNES Kappa
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-03-21 01:10
So,
I extracted the snes9x-rr thing that I found, I loaded my game (a daily challenge, could it be why it blocks?) I selected "lua" under the robot icon in Emotracker I started a lua script with connector.lua Robot indeed turned cyan ; still not registering uncle sword tho
01:10
Did I misfollow something?
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-03-21 01:25
connector.lua has to be under Emotracker directory, that's what I misread, fine
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-03-21 01:33
Are we supposed to use the versions of snes9x-rr located under the Emotracker/Connectors/snes9x/snes9x-rr directory? None of the ones there do work
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EmoSaru 2019-03-21 01:40
It’s the only version I’ve tested with
01:40
And I literally just tested it successfully
01:41
Have you run the Lua script and seen a connected message?
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-03-21 01:43
Yes
01:43
I mean, the snes9x-rr that are already under Emotracker just do not start
01:44
I got another one in LTTPR server which now works fine, I just cleared what was in Emotracker/Connectors/snes9x/ to put it in there
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EmoSaru 2019-03-21 01:46
ah, that expanded one is actually not supposed to be in there, lol
01:46
It will get removed
01:46
the zipped version works and can be extracted elsewhere
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-03-21 01:47
Well, I tried everything there and nothing worked, but maybe I just confused myself
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EmoSaru 2019-03-21 01:56
You do need to make sure you've started the autotracker in EmoTracker with the Lua connector prior to running the Lua script
01:56
But otherwise it should be fine
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-03-21 02:01
I mean, simply the snes9x-rr .exe program does not start, for those which are in that directory ; regardless of extracted or not (edited)
02:01
I had to get another one and to put it there
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total 2019-03-21 02:10
You could try retroarch with qusb2snes as well and use the snes9x core, and then you can play with a better emulator as well 😃
02:11
All you need to do with retroarch is enable advanced settings, and then turn on network commands (or edit the retroarch.cfg and enable it there)
02:11
That's not an officially supported configuration for emotracker though, but it should work in theory
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-03-21 02:45
I don't have the computer for that GWchinaDJeanneDespair
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total 2019-03-21 02:45
huh, if you can run snes9x you can run retroarch with snes9x core
02:46
shouldn't be any difference
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-03-21 02:55
well, it barely runs in 20fps and I don't understand anything to retroarch config so
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total 2019-03-21 03:22
hmm ok
03:22
Seems strange that snes9x-rr wouldn't start though
03:22
Do you get any kind of error message?
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-03-21 03:26
nothing
03:26
It just appears in task manager for a few seconds then disappears
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-03-21 04:10
so i was using the autotracker and just a second ago my tracker completely reset back to as if i was just starting a run im assuming this is not normal? what might have caused it
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Tekky 2019-03-21 04:27
Did you accidentally press F5
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-03-21 04:34
no it happened after i did a save quit
04:34
@Tekky
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Tekky 2019-03-21 04:44
Just asking simple questions. Can't really help past that.
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-03-21 05:00
Ok
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Vornicus 2019-03-21 05:09
Load now?
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Noface 2019-03-21 05:39
@A System of Vibrant Colors I have another version of snes9x-rr that I could link you, maybe it'll work better for you
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-03-21 06:48
I got another one that works, but I was saying the one in the Emotracker sub folder did not
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Pennyroyal_Oil 2019-03-21 07:17
I tried to break the auto tracker by doing an owg seed with it set to not always allow chest manipulation, tracker shrugged and did stuff perfectly- I take this as a good sign
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EmoSaru 2019-03-21 09:33
@Nelliel (Shippo) please always include what emulator or other config you’re using when describing auto-tracker issues. Also, did it start updating again after you re-entered the game? Did the robot icon stay cyan? (edited)
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Espeon 2019-03-21 12:59
Guide to Autotracker Setup (Snes9x-rr) Download snes9x-rr from https://www.dropbox.com/s/hh34v0l6qb5b8kh/snes9x-rr-1.57.zip?dl=0. It works like snes9x 1.57, so you can use MSU-1 packs with it now! After unzipping the emulator: - Put the snes9x-rr emulator and associated files into a different folder from your normal snes9x emulator. This will ensure that no accidental interactions between your current settings and the -rr emulator will occur. If you will only use this emulator in the future, you can then delete the other emulator as you won't use it after this. (Make sure to keep your ROM files, though!) - Open Emotracker with a package that supports autotracking. Right click on the robot in the bottom right corner and set it to "Lua," then start the autotracking. (it'll come up yellow, that's ok) - In snes9x-rr, go to File > Lua Scripting > New Lua Script Window. Open the connector.lua script included in the Emotracker install directory (probably something like C:\Program Files (x86)\EmoTracker\Connectors\snes9x\connector.lua). - Run the script. If everything is working correctly, the console will output that the connection was established, and the robot will change to cyan. Leave the Lua console open in the background. - Then it should work. Hopefully. (edited)
❤ 3
pidgeTy 1
13:00
since people probably want it
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Battle00333 2019-03-21 13:10
After giving away the mushroom, the autotracker will remove the mushroom from the tracker, the next item you get, after showing the mushroom as spent.
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-03-21 13:10
Because it’s no longer in your inventory. (edited)
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Battle00333 2019-03-21 13:11
yup. but it might not be ideal to have it be like that, incase you forget you did mushroom chrisShrug
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Natalie 2019-03-21 13:11
Internally to the game, nothing distinguishes "I own the mushroom" and "I owned the mushroom but now don't" that is within the allowed regions of memory to read
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stephen 2019-03-21 13:11
i assumed that was expected behavior.
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-03-21 13:11
There’s a standing patch ready for inclusion in the game code that includes a flag for “shroom is spent” but it’s not integrated yet. (edited)
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Natalie 2019-03-21 13:11
it's on emo to provide a certain level of support tracker-side for that
13:11
or the lttpr devs to add a ram flag
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Espeon 2019-03-21 13:16
once "shroom is spent" flag is included then it could easily be done
13:16
it's not really a big deal anyway
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EmoSaru 2019-03-21 13:20
Pinned a message.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-21 19:14
With respect to the mushroom, that’s actually something I can improve on my side. I’m planning to do it at some point, but it’s low-ish priority against some other stuff I’m looking at
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Dudude Dude 2019-03-21 19:35
And yeah thinking about it, since you do autotrack the item from the mushroom getting picked up (As its an overworld location) marking the mushroom completed could just use that data right?
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EmoSaru 2019-03-21 19:41
We’re talking about turning in the mushroom
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stephen 2019-03-21 19:41
is it normal for the robot to go unhappy upon entering the triforce room?
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EmoSaru 2019-03-21 19:41
And no, it should not go unhappy
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stephen 2019-03-21 19:42
ok. well, it worked perfectly fine and went red i assume when i entered triforce but it was definitely after agah2
19:42
otherwise 2h+ of happy autotracking, no having to stop/start
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EmoSaru 2019-03-21 19:43
Interesting. Did you get the post game summary notification, and was it populated correctly?
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stephen 2019-03-21 19:43
nope. that's what prompted me to notice red robot
19:43
yesterday i got it after a stop start, today i can't even right click on robot. tracker itself still responsive
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EmoSaru 2019-03-21 19:44
Interesting.
19:44
Somethings hung, F5 may reset it
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stephen 2019-03-21 19:45
f5 and start autotracking, and i got my postgame
19:45
so long as the autotracking works as well as it does, i'm willing to accept that my setup is the cause of the disruptions unless other people experience the same.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-21 19:46
I’ll do some testing tonight to verify (edited)
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stephen 2019-03-21 19:46
because when it works, it works exactly as it should.
19:46
and it works 99% of the time.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-21 19:47
It’s unlikely to be an issue unique to your setup
19:47
It’s possible that your setup is more prone to exposing a timing issue of some sort
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stephen 2019-03-21 19:48
is happy robot green or blue
19:48
i'm doubting myself now
19:48
my eyes, that is. it looks green unless i get close to my screen
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EmoSaru 2019-03-21 19:49
it's cyan
19:49
so, yes
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stephen 2019-03-22 05:17
@Rockman which pack are you trying to use autotracker for
05:20
guessing the alttp pack since you asked over there too. Did you update the pack to the latest version?
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Rockman 2019-03-22 08:50
i tried with open mode with map
08:50
i updated packs to the latest version
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EmoSaru 2019-03-22 09:26
Are you on 32-bit Windows? Autotracker is unavailable on 32 bit windows. #faq (edited)
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Rockman 2019-03-22 15:27
i use 64 bits windows 7
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EmoSaru 2019-03-22 16:11
What version of the tracker are you running? It should say in the title bar. Actually, just a screenshot of your tracker would be very helpful.
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codemann8 2019-03-22 16:54
@Rockman Another thing I've noticed, if you have too many objects overridden, many new features, like auto-tracking won't work, so clearing the overrides should give you your robot. Be sure to backup all your overrides tho, and only override what you need, and if you have problems, you may have to manually merge your overridden changes. (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-03-22 16:57
It's not about how many things you've overridden - it's about what changes you've made. For example, an old init.lua override will disable the whole thing outright (and break other stuff).
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codemann8 2019-03-22 17:01
Well, I just meant too many things, because I, out of curiosity of what I can change, I overwrote just about every file, and was noticing that all these updates coming thru weren't doing anything. I suspect others with the same level of curiosity are doing the same thing
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Natalie 2019-03-22 17:21
..well, yes, because you've overridden basic functionality by that point
17:21
you should be double-checking and remaking overrides with every package update
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EmoSaru 2019-03-22 17:25
...and only overriding the things you actually want to override.
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-03-22 19:01
@EmoSaru I will take that into consideration next time I was using bizhawk bsnes core and I think it stayed cyan all I know is I had to redo what I had done on the tracker which wasn't hard just surprised me is all
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JRJathome 2019-03-22 19:18
I also had EmoTracker reset twice during a run today. I was on SD2SNES. Pressing 'stop' and 'start' again in the autotracker menu fixed it each time.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-22 21:16
I just updated the pack with a patch that should improve this a bit
21:17
Assuming it's the thing where the tracker appears to reset across a S+Q
21:18
That said, there's a difference between things resetting across a S+Q and then coming back after a while, and it actually just stopping working
21:18
So, see if it happens on the new version
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DigitalD 2019-03-23 09:11
So, when I first set up the lua script with EmuHawk, I get the following: The connection was reestablished. Unable to find domain: System Bus, falling back to current Warning: Attempted read 8257696 outside memory domain size of 131072 in readbyterange() NLua.Exceptions.LuaScriptException: [string "main"]:47: bad argument #1 to 'char' (number expected, got nil) Connection lost. Attempting to reestablish... The connection was reestablished.
09:11
And then periodically, I get that lost/reestablished message
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pkmnfrk 2019-03-23 09:11
ooh, I know this one
09:11
you need to set your core to bsnes
09:12
Config -> Cores -> SNES -> BSNES
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DigitalD 2019-03-23 09:15
BOOM! that was it
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pkmnfrk 2019-03-23 09:16
it took me 30 minutes last night to figure out what was wrong
09:16
happy tracking!
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DigitalD 2019-03-23 09:18
So, auto tracker doesn't clear a location unless there's a "normal" item there? Triforce hunt piece won't clear that location.
09:19
Or do I have to leave the script console open?
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pkmnfrk 2019-03-23 09:19
that I do not know
09:20
if you stop the tracking in emotracker, and you get an error in bizhawk, then I guess you don't need to leave the console open
09:21
the only quirk I do know is that dungeon chests do not track automatically
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DigitalD 2019-03-23 09:35
I did notice the dungeon chests "bug"
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pkmnfrk 2019-03-23 09:41
I believe it's not technically a bug
09:41
it's because emotracker only has chests for the "real" items, not keys or maps or whatever
09:42
since the script doesn't know what chests count or not from emotracker's perspective, they are ignored
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EmoSaru 2019-03-23 10:14
Dungeon chests are not a bug. Triforce pieces should still clear chests for any that are tracked.
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DigitalD 2019-03-23 10:37
Looks like I do have to leave the Lua Console window open for the tracking to continue to work
10:37
But that's an EmuHawk issue, not a EmoTracker issue
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Mihalo 2019-03-23 12:43
well yes. if you close the lua console, you stop the script
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Vaevictus 2019-03-24 09:02
would someone refresh my memory as to why ice palace needs to be yellow? is it because of needing to get red cane if you can't ipbj in an edge case?
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soft-k 2019-03-24 09:03
yellow = completeable with sequence breaks, of which ipbj is technically
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Vaevictus 2019-03-24 09:03
i know, but i had basically everything but cane...
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soft-k 2019-03-24 09:04
you get cane in mire in vanilla so i don't think you need it for ice palace
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Vaevictus 2019-03-24 09:04
iirc, there's an odd edge case where you need cane to complete it in one randomized scenario
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little_red 2019-03-24 09:05
it is logically required if kholdstare drops a key
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soft-k 2019-03-24 09:05
Ah, I see
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Vaevictus 2019-03-24 09:06
@little_red it's the cane, right?
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little_red 2019-03-24 09:06
yes
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Vaevictus 2019-03-24 09:07
i often enter IP later than i would because it tracks yellow instead of green :D
09:07
(since i consider myself proficient at IPBJ)
09:07
i need a pink color or something for that in particular
09:07
yellow/green diagonal stripes
09:08
just to remind me
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Lechtansi 2019-03-24 09:13
in the past i've edited out the cane requirement inside the locations json, so that it shows green when i have mitts / hammer / hookshot / pearl / flippers / firerod or bombos
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ScorelessPine 2019-03-24 23:50
How difficult would it be for someone to implement autotracking for a different randomizer than the officially supported one? Do you think anyone has tried to start working on one?
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Natalie 2019-03-24 23:54
There's autotracker support for Super Adventure Island 2
23:54
so it's definitely something at least partially accessible for other users
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ScorelessPine 2019-03-24 23:55
I was trying to look into the autotracker lua code and by god from an outsiders perspective, its real hard to grasp
23:56
I think i get a basic concept of how it runs between like bizhawk and emotracker but I have no idea how one could edit it for custom address reads for a different rom
23:57
I might have to look at the super adventure island one too then to cross reference what they did to make it work from the original
23:57
I have no confidence in my ability to complete this task but ill look into it lmao
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codemann8 2019-03-24 23:59
I too was wondering the same thing, like if I wanted to have it auto track the chest counts in each dungeon (rather than tracking nothing), it's really hard to tell what you'd need to modify to get that to work. (edited)
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ScorelessPine 2019-03-25 00:00
Does it not do that?
00:00
I havent used it much yet
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codemann8 2019-03-25 00:02
As in ToH has 6 chests (including boss), 2 are items, the rest are dungeon items (edited)
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ScorelessPine 2019-03-25 00:03
What do you mean about the chest counts though
00:03
From in the autotracker lua, it makes it seem like its at least trying to update the chest counts
00:04
I have no way of knowing if its actually doing it tho
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codemann8 2019-03-25 00:06
Whoops, I edited the last comment instead of replying
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ScorelessPine 2019-03-25 00:07
Oh i think i see what you are talking about inside the code
00:08
I dont see any updateSectionChestCountFrom functions that reference or involve dungeons
00:08
All of them are either "OverworldIndexAndFlag" or "ByteAndFlag"
00:09
or something
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codemann8 2019-03-25 00:09
That's what I mean, I'd rather track chests rather than the auto tracker doing nothing, but it's unclear what you'd need to modify to get it to do that
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ScorelessPine 2019-03-25 00:09
And then theres the "updateSeciontChestCountFromRoomSlotList" function that is called a lot but its all overworld rooms
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codemann8 2019-03-25 00:10
^that's likely what you'd do for dungeons I'd assume
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ScorelessPine 2019-03-25 00:11
I bet more than anything, if I were to try and add calls for dungeon rooms (assuming I could find the game's location references for them that is) it would track those too
00:11
Let me see what I can do
00:13
Wait, i just noticed in line 350 theres a function called "updateRoomsFromMemorySegment" which has references to the dungeons
00:13
"ep" "dp" "toh" "pod" ...etc
00:14
it calls a function called updateToggleFromRoomSlot
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codemann8 2019-03-25 00:14
Those are for big keys and current small key counts (not collected key counts) tho, right?
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ScorelessPine 2019-03-25 00:16
...maybe... I cant tell
00:18
Would you happen to know what Tracker:FindObjectForCode(code) would do?
00:18
code is the code string for the dungeon (e.g. "pod")
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codemann8 2019-03-25 00:18
That's just it, there's a lot of references in that code that clearly are a part of Emo code that we just don't have info on (edited)
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ScorelessPine 2019-03-25 00:18
I believe in Lua the : means it acts like "FindObjectForCode(Tracker, code)
00:22
Ok i think i get it, the tracker code has created Objects for a lot of the things it uses, some of those being the usable items and others being the dungeons, coded with "flute" "bow", etc for items, and "pod" "toh" etc for dungeons
00:25
its using that to see if an object for the dungeons code exists, then reading room data from it. I can only assume that the data its extracting is whether or not chests are open (without using bizhawk to check the addresses manually). If I enable debug logging, it should print the room data that it reads from that.
00:27
I'm gonna start a new save and turn on debugs to check that in the Escape sequence and see what it spits out
00:31
That may be an issue unless I figure out how to override files or repack it
00:35
Gooot it Edit: the overrides that is, will come back for more updates (edited)
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ScorelessPine 2019-03-25 00:50
@codemann8 Are you absolutely sure the autotracker doesnt track chests? Sorry to ping you back here, but I see at least the "Castle Secret Entrance" chests track fine if I pin it or click into it to look at its contents. I went down a rabbit hole of looking in the debug output when I thought to actually check it on my own and I dont see anything out of the ordinary.
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codemann8 2019-03-25 00:51
Try escape
00:52
Secret castle entrance isn't a dungeon (edited)
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ScorelessPine 2019-03-25 00:52
Ok fair, trying now
00:52
Okay it doesnt, I see that now
00:53
Back to code diving...
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EmoSaru 2019-03-25 00:54
I'm going to say a couple things... 1) I recommend learning about how EmoTracker packs work in general. There's nothing terribly obtuse in the autotracker script, and nothing in there is "secret". 2) With all due respect... If you're struggling too hard to dissect/understand what's going on in this script, you might not be ready to implement this for another game. Honestly, the auto-tracker script is what I would classify as pretty simple in the grand scheme of things. (edited)
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codemann8 2019-03-25 00:57
It looks simple, but there's stuff in there referenced that's clearly out of scope, like references to Tracker: and impossible to tell what's available to us without seeing the Tracker object library (edited)
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ScorelessPine 2019-03-25 00:57
Yeah I figured as much. Its not too much that Im struggling as it is im a complete outsider looking in to a project which i have no idea how it works just yet. If you're wondering, I'm trying to see how difficult it would be for the SMALTTP combo rando implementation.
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codemann8 2019-03-25 00:58
I do know that smz3 is a exhirom type, where z3 is a lorom type, so the addresses will be quite different
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EmoSaru 2019-03-25 00:59
@codemann8 Have you considered that the reason I recommend my pack as a learning resource for people is that, generally speaking, I try to make sure it contains an example of everything that's available?
01:00
I will also say that it is possible that there will be underlying changes necessary for exhirom support, at the connectorlib level. Somebody will have to try and find out, and I will work with the devs to get anything fixed as necessary.
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ScorelessPine 2019-03-25 01:05
As someone who has near-zero prior experience in this though, I dont think im up to the task. If anyone else more qualified is willing to try, power to them, and id be glad to use it when its done, lol.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-25 01:05
What's your programming background like in general?
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ScorelessPine 2019-03-25 01:06
A little in high school, and a couple classes on Java in college before taking a break. I know basic java, C, and a little python
01:06
very basic knowledge
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Zembar 2019-03-25 01:07
Well, experience comes from doing. There are worse ways to get into it, imo
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EmoSaru 2019-03-25 01:07
Okay. I would say that the stuff you need to do in order to do this kind of stuff will be a stretch for you, but is learnable with your background. My honest recommendation is to learn more about how packs are defined in general. A lot of what's going on in the autotracker script will make more sense when you have a general understanding of the data the tracker deals with.
01:08
The rest is going to come down to just breaking down the code piece by piece. Make sure you understand what each bit is doing before moving on.
01:08
That's my advice, as a very senior software engineer, to a very junior programmer.
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ScorelessPine 2019-03-25 01:11
Thank you for the advice. I might come back to this tomorrow and start again with different ideas/plans with that in mind, and see what I can get done. I guess Ill start by trying to make a simple tracker and go from there.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-25 01:14
That sounds like a good plan!
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Natalie 2019-03-25 01:49
JSON is easy to understand, as it's roughly just keys and values in a structure. Lua has very good tutorials on the internet. Play with it, it's good things to learn.
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-03-25 01:50
All that, and, Z3M3 isn't the best one to start with to try to do autotracking. Make a different autotracking pack first. Z3M3 could also use some game file modifications to make the process over here easier. So, it's not quite mature enough to make an autotracking app that reads memory and may have issues with persisting memory.
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total 2019-03-25 03:54
It's possible to write autotracking right now for SMALTTP, but you'll run into some reasonably tricky things due to different WRAM layouts when it switches games
03:54
so the autotracker needs to constantly keep tabs on what game is active, and read from different places depending on that
03:55
I'm available to assist with technical details in terms of where all the needed data is though, so when you get to that point just let me know and I'll try to provide the needed information
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Merc249 2019-03-25 07:45
Quick question: SNES Classic is not currently supported by the auto-tracker, correct?
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stephen 2019-03-25 07:46
Officially, no.
07:47
However, there is something called qusb2snes which acts as an interface to make the SNESClassic respond to SD2SNES commands. It is possible to use that and possibly get the autotracker to work. However, it's not something you'd be able to get a ton of help with here.
07:47
So, it is theoretically possible, but not supported. (edited)
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Merc249 2019-03-25 07:48
Makes sense, thanks for the quick response! I'll likely just continue manual tracking for now then. First time hearing about qusb2snes though, that's interesting.
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stephen 2019-03-25 07:49
A Qt based webserver for usb2snes. Contribute to Skarsnik/QUsb2snes development by creating an account on GitHub.
👌 1
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JRJathome 2019-03-25 07:51
There's instructions pinned in this channel for making it work.
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stephen 2019-03-25 07:51
there sure are!
07:51
how bout that.
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Merc249 2019-03-25 08:01
For some reason I thought the SNES Mini was different from the SNES Classic and skipped over that pinned message, hence my original question. My bad, andyHide
08:02
I'll take a look at that then
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stephen 2019-03-25 08:03
Classic is the official name, some call it the mini
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Natalie 2019-03-25 08:06
It's actually a regional difference, stupidly enough. Nintendo STILL hasn't learned.
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Lechtansi 2019-03-25 14:56
@Merc249 i've gotten it to work on my mini, if you have questions let me know
kelpLove 1
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Cadenza 2019-03-26 21:48
Hi! I don't get it. I've downloaded the snes 9x1.54 for autotracking and I can't manage to get it on streamlabs obs to be seen.
21:48
Does someone has an idea why?
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codemann8 2019-03-26 21:53
@Cadenza Those are 2 different things, you need Snes9x-RR, the setup is described in the pinned messages in this channel. As far as OBS, the supported method is thru an NDI source, so you'll need to make sure NDI Tools are installed and also obs-ndi plugin is installed so you can add NDI sources. This part of the topic, however, is probably best discussed in #general-support (edited)
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Cadenza 2019-03-26 21:55
ok; I'll guess I'll go have a look into that tomorrow... it's too late for that tonight. Thanks.
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Alriightyman 2019-03-27 15:55
Search isn’t working well for me right now. I’m getting an error using Bizhawk. EmoTracker has the following error: “Auto-Tracking is having an issue. Connection issues, missing game data, or a pack attempting to access restricted memory can cause this.” I’m using EmoTracker pack Standard Map Tracker. I’d use snes9x-rr but I don’t have an Internet connection here at the moment. Any idea as to what’s wrong?
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EmoSaru 2019-03-27 16:04
Are you using Bizhawk with the correct core, Lua interpreter, etc.? (edited)
16:04
Did you make sure to follow the instructions in the pins exactly and completely? (edited)
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Alriightyman 2019-03-27 16:12
Yes. I followed the bizhawk setup. I had it working when the auto tracker was first release. The EmoTracker version is 2.3.2.8. I know that not the latest, but I believe that was the version where the auto tracker was enabled. Correct me if I’m wrong.
16:14
I can take phone pics of the settings if that helps. But I don’t think I missed a step.
16:17
Core is bsnes; Luna is set to Lua+LuaInterface
16:17
Connector output says the connection was established
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stephen 2019-03-27 16:28
i'd suggest screenshots instead of phone pictures. if you are on windows start->run->"snippingtool" should let you take easy screen clippings
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Alriightyman 2019-03-27 16:32
Yeah, but it doesn’t have an Internet connection right now.
16:33
I’ll just have to wait until I can get to an Internet connection. I’ll just try the snes-rr version instead.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-27 17:28
Are you running the Crowd Control app by any chance? Or any other apps that use connectorlib? (edited)
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Alriightyman 2019-03-27 19:46
Nope.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-27 20:17
I verified earlier that Bizhawk was working for me, using the connector.lua in the Program Files/EmoTracker directory. I'd recommend updating to the latest version of EmoTracker, but also I'd be curious to know what version of bizhawk you're using.
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Alriightyman 2019-03-28 06:00
BizHawk Version: 2.3.1 (x64)
06:00
I'll have to update EmoTracker later after work. (edited)
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codemann8 2019-03-28 14:20
Has autotracker been verified to work across the network? I'm attempting to have BizHawk Lua connect to an Emo instance on another computer. I've modified the connector.lua script CLIENT_HOST variable to the Emo client computer name (also tried IP address). I've also disabled all firewalls and AV on both computers in question. And also, no other programs on both computers are using ConnectorLib. The robot stays yellow and upon starting the script it says failed to open socket. I'm not sure if this is something that SHOULD work and I just have something not configured or if this is an issue with the underlying ConnectorLib library. (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-03-28 15:45
It's not something I'm supporting, it's something that's possible AFAICT. I would expect it to almost definitely require using IP addresses, and I haven't personally tested it.
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Allstin 2019-03-29 06:37
I followed the directions to autotrack and I couldn’t get it to work. I downloaded the snes9x-rr version, loaded connector.lua while having the tracker open - maybe I missed a step? The little robot was yellow, but still said “autotracking” when I moused over. However when loading connector.lua it said script finished running (right away), but nothing else really.
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stephen 2019-03-29 06:45
what outputted in the console when you opened connector.lua
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Espeon 2019-03-29 07:13
it should say that it finished but left processes running
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EmoSaru 2019-03-29 10:14
Make sure you start the autotracker before running the connector.lua script.
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cptanihilate 2019-03-29 19:04
i am curretnly getting the following error in both bizhawk and snes9x-rr NLua.Exceptions.LuaScriptException: error loading module 'socket.core' from file '.\socket.dll': dynamic libraries not enabled; check your Lua installation any clues?
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EmoSaru 2019-03-29 19:21
I would expect that error in bizhawk assuming you didn’t follow the instructions in the pins precisely, because you should not be using Nlua there
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Mihalo 2019-03-29 20:13
errors will always say NLua funnily, but yeah this is a "lua core not changed" error
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-29 21:49
what the fudge
21:49
why is it not working with my sd2snes linkusREE
👎 1
21:51
21:52
thing
21:52
just... what
21:52
i just refreshed the tracker
21:52
ya gotta be kidding me
21:52
and yes i have it set to sd2snes
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EmoSaru 2019-03-29 21:58
Do you have the usb2snes firmware installed on your sd2snes? Is your sd2snes connected properly to your computer? What app are you running for the usb2snes host, and have you verified that it's running?
22:00
Also, two things - when you're asking for help, tone matters. Also, I do not tolerate "ree" anything in here, emote or otherwise.
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Espeon 2019-03-29 22:06
the reason the error says NLua is because i assume the script is attempting to call a function that doesn't exist
22:06
what's wrong with ree though :(
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EmoSaru 2019-03-29 22:07
It has a history relating to making fun of people dealing with certain conditions. Not everybody intends it that way, but I have no interest in perpetuating it.
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Espeon 2019-03-29 22:07
i suppose. fair enough
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Blandation 2019-03-29 22:44
So, I'm either super dumb or something is wrong (likely the former) and cannot figure out how to get this auto tracker to work on bizhawk for the life of me...I followed the pinned directions to no avail.
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Blandation 2019-03-29 22:54
lmao. Blandation's law strikes again. I tried to open a session and not a script. Someone just delete my life. (it works now, obviously) (edited)
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-29 23:36
i do have the firmware installed, only thing i can think of is that im playing it on the retrobit
23:36
was working before on snes
23:37
what do mean by app though
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EmoSaru 2019-03-30 00:05
There is always an app that is running that talks to the sd2snes. Examples include usb2snesw, qusb2snes, and the crowd control sd2snes service (which you may need to manually start)
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-30 00:16
how do i find out which it's using?
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EmoSaru 2019-03-30 00:17
Did you specifically run an app called usb2snesw or qusb2snes?
00:17
If not, do you have crowd control installed?
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-30 00:25
i have crowd control installed on my laptop
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EmoSaru 2019-03-30 00:36
Okay, well, you may need to manually start or restart the Crowd Control SD2SNES Service
00:36
You can do that on Windows 10 by pressing the windows key and typing "service", and then opening the Services app
00:37
Find the Crwod Control SD2SNES Service, right click and start it (if it's not running) or stop it and then start it (if it was running)
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-30 01:05
it's still not working 😦
01:05
it keeps flashing between yellow and cyan
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EmoSaru 2019-03-30 01:20
That means I suspect an issue with your sd2snes connection. You may want to stop the sd2snes service, and try using usb2snesw, as its context menu will let you verify whether or not it’s seeing your sd2snes properly
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-30 01:38
i'll check it out in the morning 😄 im probs going to bed after i get some food
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StIdes 2019-03-30 01:55
How come the autotracker doesn't work for dungeons?
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JRJathome 2019-03-30 02:00
I believe it's due to the chest counts in dungeons for the non-keysanity pack not including the map, compass or keys. The autotracker would mistakenly mark off chests even if they had one of those items. It's also disabled for keysanity for consistency's sake.
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StIdes 2019-03-30 02:01
aww that's too bad, any chance they'll ever figure it out?
02:01
to like not count maps, compasses and keys
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JRJathome 2019-03-30 02:07
It would have to know what's in the chest to do so, which is not allowed.
02:07
At least, that's how I understand it.
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StIdes 2019-03-30 02:08
how does it know whats in the chest after you open it?
02:08
surely if it can read whats in a chest after you open it, it could disregard it
02:08
not that I have any clue what I'm talking about either lol
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-03-30 02:08
The current location for that data isn’t exposed to the proper areas that aren’t next to sensitive data. Once it’s made available in an approved spot, it would increase its likelihood of inclusion.
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StIdes 2019-03-30 02:09
@MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge I'll take your word for it
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-03-30 02:10
The memory of Inventory of unique items is stored differently and not near other stuff that isn’t allowed to be observed by auto tracking software.
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StIdes 2019-03-30 02:10
figured it was something beyond my paygrade
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-03-30 02:10
But what do I know? I’m just a bus driver. :p
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EmoSaru 2019-03-30 11:29
Setup instructions for auto-tracking are now also available in French, courtesy of several members here and the Francophone tournament. Mise en place de l’Autotracker (Emotracker) par kryptixx (vidéo) et IrisIsotheis (écrit) - https://goo.gl/2EJDT3 / https://goo.gl/G1Gzsx (edited)
Guides pour activer l'autotracker Traque automatique des objets /!\ La fonction est encore en beta, ce qui signifie qu'elle peut ne pas être tout à fait stable. Ne faites pas une confiance aveugle au traqueur ! SNES9X > Ne fonctionne que avec snes9x-rr. Cette version de ...
11:29
Pinned a message.
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konkers 2019-03-30 17:40
I went to continue an ALttPR seed today from last night. I left the tracker running overnight. When turned on my SNES an reconnected my SD2SNES over USB, some, but not all, off my state got reset. It was a mix of over world and dungeon state. Known issue? Any workarounds?
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stephen 2019-03-30 17:45
autotracker is gonna overwrite manual progess when you turn it on
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EmoSaru 2019-03-30 18:07
Did you refresh the pack?
18:08
Because you would certainly lose dungeon progress and any overworld locations you manually cleared if you did (edited)
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StIdes 2019-03-30 18:28
I thought the auto tracker doesn't work for dungeons?
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JRJathome 2019-03-30 18:29
Yeah. She's talking about manual progress.
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StIdes 2019-03-30 18:30
oic
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konkers 2019-03-30 18:36
I didn't refresh the tracker or pack. It seems like the progress lost was a mix of manual and auto progress.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-30 18:36
Can you list the progress you lost?
18:37
And just to sanity check, have you verified that you didnt actually lose that progress by not saving?
18:38
I have definitely loaded roms with saves, turned on autotracker, and gotten accurate results, so I’m just trying to narrow things down. Also I’m hoping you waited until the game itself was booted up prior to turning on the auto tracker
18:38
Because you’ll see random stuff prior to the game being loaded
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konkers 2019-03-30 18:42
Ah, I did not wait for the game to load, that's probably it.
18:43
That makes sense. So when do I enable tracking? After the save file load, or just game load?
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EmoSaru 2019-03-30 18:44
Just game load. I usually do it at file select
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konkers 2019-03-30 18:51
Nice! Thanks for the help!
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codemann8 2019-03-30 21:55
Emo I just want to say, the auto tracker is running much more stable each update, thanks for what you do (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-03-30 22:18
👍
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-31 17:28
i'm not sure but by what im noticing it seems like if you use msu packs the autotracker doesnt want to work (I'm playing with sd2snes)
17:28
i tried on a seed without and it worked fine, tried with, it failed
17:29
and judging by what sakura said the other day i wonder if that's the issue
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JRJathome 2019-03-31 17:43
Hard to say. I use msu packs, and haven't had an issue with the autotracking.
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-31 18:01
do you play on console with crowd control extension?
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JRJathome 2019-03-31 18:02
Yep
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-31 19:02
Hmm strange
19:03
Dunno, same cord same hardware, everything
19:04
Just one pack had MSU the other didn’t
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-31 22:14
im like... 99% sure it's the msu thing...
22:14
i even tried renaming another seed and it worked fine
22:14
but run with msu it doesnt like it
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JRJathome 2019-03-31 22:56
So just an update, we got Math_Girl updated to usb2snes version 1.9.0 firmware and that seems to have solved the issue. Fingers crossed. 😃
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Math_Girl718 2019-03-31 23:23
just confirmed it does work with latest firmware
23:23
i don't know what was causing the issue but it's good now
23:25
i completely deleted everything except dsp files and cx4 i think it's called and redid it with the usb2snes_v9 stuff and 1.10.2 sd2snes firmware
23:25
ran it again and it was good
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codemann8 2019-04-01 14:16
@Math_Girl718 you mentioned crowd control, autotracker definitely won't work if you have crowd control open
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JRJathome 2019-04-01 14:20
Define 'open'. I have the CC SD2SNES service open to talk to my SD2SNES, but I'm not running a crowd control game at the same time.
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stephen 2019-04-01 14:39
autotracker definitely works with crowd control
14:39
or at least, can
14:40
because I have done it.
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EmoSaru 2019-04-01 15:22
It works with crowd control concurrently on sd2snes
15:22
not on emulator
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Math_Girl718 2019-04-01 17:49
ive been having no issues with emulator, only console XD anyway it seems to be working now though
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Autre31415 2019-04-02 11:18
I think this whole sd2snes usb driver -> cc driver -> auto tracker tool chain is very cool and would love to learn more about how it functions. Are there any decent resources online that I can read to learn more? I'm not personally in the business of building a new auto tracker but I might be able to develop a cross platform adapter for one (edited)
11:21
From my very surface level observations I presume the sd2snes driver spits out eye glaze that the cc driver converts into a usable data API that the auto tracker uses to fill in the items collected
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EmoSaru 2019-04-02 12:04
Hi - this is not really the place for this type of discussion, and I don’t really have time to provide support for this type of work. Reading through the connectorlib source code is the best thing I can point you to - it’s fairly straightforward - but that’s the extent to which I am able to help you.
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Autre31415 2019-04-02 13:22
Thanks
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MacAttack519 2019-04-04 22:34
Hey quick question. I downloaded EmoTracker for alttp randomizer runs and I was just wondering how to sync the game with the tracker?
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EmoSaru 2019-04-04 22:53
Pinned messages are a good place to look.
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MacAttack519 2019-04-04 23:29
Thank you. Now the issue I'm having is after I run the lua connector it says that it's supposed to say that a connection was made and the robot on the emotracker app would turn to cyan but it's still yellow
23:33
oh jk I got it to work
23:33
but for some reason my emulator has no sound. Ill deal witht hat later
23:33
thanks for the help!
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Stylesetter 2019-04-13 06:48
After todays Emotracker update my autotracking doesnt seem to be working anymore. I am using the Snes9X v1.54 experimental that has been pinned in this chat a while ago. Its giving me the error "Failed to unpack block" and the Lua console is telling me "script returned but is still running registered functions". (edited)
06:48
Can anyone help please?
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EmoSaru 2019-04-13 10:29
Are you loading the connector.lua script from the Connectors/snes9x directory in the EmoTracker install directory? If you have copied the scripts anywhere else, and are running an old version, it will not work.
10:30
The first line output into the Lua window in Snes9x should be ConnectorLib Lua Connector 2.0.0 (LuaSocket 3.0-rc1) if you are on the correct version
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Tabbycat54 2019-04-13 21:27
I have the same error. When I updated the connector.lua it gave me this. I'm going to try a clean installation.
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-04-13 21:31
I mean, that is an error, but I wouldn't call it the same error.
21:32
What emulator are you using and what game are you trying to interface with?
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Natalie 2019-04-13 21:33
"it's not working, so it must be the same error"
21:33
🤔
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Tabbycat54 2019-04-13 21:38
Sorry, I didn't specify exactly what I did. I had the same error with the failed to unpack block, then I updated the connector.lua. After I did, I got this error and I screencapped the lua afterward (edited)
21:38
SNES 9x v1.54
21:39
Game is LTTP
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-04-13 21:40
Step one: What's hal.lua and why does it want it?
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Tabbycat54 2019-04-13 21:41
I wish I knew :/
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-04-13 21:41
TFW you wanna help but the Tiny Overlord requires a sacrifice.
21:42
Are you using Emo's pack in particular? Which variation?
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EmoSaru 2019-04-13 21:43
Why are you running connector.lua from there?
21:43
Did you copy the entire folder it was in?
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Tabbycat54 2019-04-13 21:43
Yes I did
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EmoSaru 2019-04-13 21:45
I'm not sure I agree
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Tabbycat54 2019-04-13 21:45
Checking on something... I might not have :x
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EmoSaru 2019-04-13 21:45
Because this is the directory listing from the current version of EmoTracker
21:45
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-04-13 21:46
You could also ask Snes9x to load the script directly from the EmoTracker folder instead of making a copy and see if that works. Access permissions may be screwy, in which case we've got a next step.
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Tabbycat54 2019-04-13 21:46
You're a lifesaver. I didn't realize I hadn't copied the full folder. As soon as I did, boom fixed
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EmoSaru 2019-04-13 21:46
As a general rule, I don't recommend copying the scripts
21:46
There will be updates
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Tabbycat54 2019-04-13 21:46
I are ashamed to say I work technical support as a day job now v.v
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EmoSaru 2019-04-13 21:46
And it's much more reliable to run them out of the install directory
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Tabbycat54 2019-04-13 21:46
oh thanks! I'll remember that from now on!
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-04-13 21:47
Everyone learns new stuff all the time. Like me, trying to care for a human child. Such adventure.
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Natalie 2019-04-13 21:51
As a former human child, I'm not sure that's something that can be learned.
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-04-13 21:51
Heh.
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Tabbycat54 2019-04-13 21:52
Lol, there is always more to learn. (edited)
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-04-13 21:52
Now. If I could only auto-track his needs without needing to guess, that’d be rad.
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Tabbycat54 2019-04-13 21:53
Well, yall fixed both mine and my buddy's trackers with one fell swoop. Again, awesome ^_^ (edited)
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-04-13 21:54
With Emo’s guidance as well.
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Tabbycat54 2019-04-13 21:54
yep yep. All hail the benevolent overlord!
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-04-13 21:54
I’m just a bus driver. :p
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Tabbycat54 2019-04-13 21:55
An awesome bus driver xD
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-04-13 21:55
Tune in next time for the next exciting episode of “My Auto-tracker’s Busted!”
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Volor 2019-04-14 03:54
Hello o/ I m having a problem with setting auto tracker for Snes9X and I dont find the step I am missing. using the -rr version from emotracker, directly from the connector folder, and using the script in its original folder. I only want to use it for streaming purpose so it is not that big of a deal, but would be nice if I get it right, I usually just forget to update it myself when playing 😄
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